IT just got REALLL, Consumer Report/Honda Civic
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Looks like CR doesn't agree with Critics theory of Honda sticking with the tried and true in the 12 Civic refresh, not redesign. 5 speed auto trans won't cut it when competitors like the top rated Elantra already at 6. Others, like Hyundai have made hay while Honda snoozed.
No surprise to me the Elantra on top. Looking recently one dealer had a 2k market adjustment to Elantra sticker.
No surprise to me the Elantra on top. Looking recently one dealer had a 2k market adjustment to Elantra sticker.
I am just glad that reality is finally setting in. Honda and Toyota are not what they used to be and I am glad that the truth is finally coming out. Was a fan of them when they were a good product but it really has been a while since the really good cars were in showrooms.
Japan could not give the Civic away in Japan and no longer sells it there. Once they switched to a cheap strut front suspension the Civic has been on a downward slide. The American team has done its stuff on the Pilot, mini-van and Civic and they show a real drop off in quality. Too bad, Honda was sharp back in the day. Now South Korea seems to be ready to take the crown away from Japan.
Honda is not having a good year. The earthquake, sales tanking because of that, the "new" Civic landing with a resounding thud, and now CR piling on. Come to think of it, I haven't read a single good review of the '12 Civic in the press.
CR's decision should have Honda scrambling since lots of auto-illiterate folks base their buying decisions in large part on their reviews and rankings. Having the Civic no longer stamped with the "Recommended by CR" badge is going to hurt sales.
Agreed, the South Korean and American-based carmakers are indeed giving Japanese-based makers heartburn right now.
CR's decision should have Honda scrambling since lots of auto-illiterate folks base their buying decisions in large part on their reviews and rankings. Having the Civic no longer stamped with the "Recommended by CR" badge is going to hurt sales.
Agreed, the South Korean and American-based carmakers are indeed giving Japanese-based makers heartburn right now.
The Korean cars are simply not as bad as most people thought they were. They are actually really nice if you go check them out. I work on cars for a living and have repaired many of these cars and they are built really well and have been for a while now. I was waiting till the truth came out and they really started trying hard. It seems like they may be getting there finally. The new Sonata and Optima are really impressive cars for the money. I have a feeling reliability will not be too bad either.
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Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
The Korean cars are simply not as bad as most people thought they were. They are actually really nice if you go check them out. I work on cars for a living and have repaired many of these cars and they are built really well and have been for a while now. I was waiting till the truth came out and they really started trying hard. It seems like they may be getting there finally. The new Sonata and Optima are really impressive cars for the money. I have a feeling reliability will not be too bad either.
My 1999 Hyundai Elantra was a very reliable car. And that was built over 12 years ago. Knowing what they know now 12 years later, I'm expecting the new Hyundai cars to be old-school Toyota reliable.
The Korean cars are simply not as bad as most people thought they were. They are actually really nice if you go check them out. I work on cars for a living and have repaired many of these cars and they are built really well and have been for a while now. I was waiting till the truth came out and they really started trying hard. It seems like they may be getting there finally. The new Sonata and Optima are really impressive cars for the money. I have a feeling reliability will not be too bad either.
My 1999 Hyundai Elantra was a very reliable car. And that was built over 12 years ago. Knowing what they know now 12 years later, I'm expecting the new Hyundai cars to be old-school Toyota reliable.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Eosyn
Just goes to show how messed up EPA testings/ratings are
Why? It's easier than ever to beat the EPA estimates since they shaved another 10% off...
With a little smarts to the driving, one can beat the highway numbers in the city!
I'm referring to how the worst rated EPA vehicle gets the best real-world efficiency while the best rated EPA vehicle gets no where near the efficiency rated by the EPA in real-world driving. Wonder if they get "bought" by the companies
LOL.
Originally Posted By: Eosyn
Just goes to show how messed up EPA testings/ratings are
Why? It's easier than ever to beat the EPA estimates since they shaved another 10% off...
With a little smarts to the driving, one can beat the highway numbers in the city!
I'm referring to how the worst rated EPA vehicle gets the best real-world efficiency while the best rated EPA vehicle gets no where near the efficiency rated by the EPA in real-world driving. Wonder if they get "bought" by the companies
Add in all the Accord and Ody owners swearing never to buy another Honda because of excessive oil consumption in their VCM V6s and Honda's heading for big trouble.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/[email protected]@.f1c61ae/86
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/[email protected]@.f1c61ae/86
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They have to be really good to overcome the perception of 'cheap Korean cars.' Just like the Japanese cars had to be really good 20-30 years ago to overcome the american MFG's which just happened to be getting lazy at that time.
My parents generation were leary of Japanese.
My generation is leary of anything not Japanese.
My kids generation is going Korean and American.
My parents generation were leary of Japanese.
My generation is leary of anything not Japanese.
My kids generation is going Korean and American.
Im pleased that the new Civic is a flop. Need to bring that car back to its roots! That Fit is a slap in the face. Worse MPG and just ugly. My family currently owns an 81, 89, 95, and 98 Civics and they are the greatest cars ever. But this whole generation since 05 has lost all apeal to its fanbase. Very happy about this huge flop.
Originally Posted By: yaris0128
Im pleased that the new Civic is a flop. Need to bring that car back to its roots! That Fit is a slap in the face. Worse MPG and just ugly. My family currently owns an 81, 89, 95, and 98 Civics and they are the greatest cars ever. But this whole generation since 05 has lost all apeal to its fanbase. Very happy about this huge flop.
I too am enjoying a lil' schadenfreude, when you rest on your laurels you deserve it.
Toyota, too.
Im pleased that the new Civic is a flop. Need to bring that car back to its roots! That Fit is a slap in the face. Worse MPG and just ugly. My family currently owns an 81, 89, 95, and 98 Civics and they are the greatest cars ever. But this whole generation since 05 has lost all apeal to its fanbase. Very happy about this huge flop.
I too am enjoying a lil' schadenfreude, when you rest on your laurels you deserve it.
Toyota, too.
Originally Posted By: yaris0128
Im pleased that the new Civic is a flop. Need to bring that car back to its roots! That Fit is a slap in the face. Worse MPG and just ugly. My family currently owns an 81, 89, 95, and 98 Civics and they are the greatest cars ever. But this whole generation since 05 has lost all apeal to its fanbase. Very happy about this huge flop.
I honestly thought 01-05 was the worst Civic generation.
Im pleased that the new Civic is a flop. Need to bring that car back to its roots! That Fit is a slap in the face. Worse MPG and just ugly. My family currently owns an 81, 89, 95, and 98 Civics and they are the greatest cars ever. But this whole generation since 05 has lost all apeal to its fanbase. Very happy about this huge flop.
I honestly thought 01-05 was the worst Civic generation.
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
I honestly thought 01-05 was the worst Civic generation.
Same here. I loved the fifth and sixth gen Civics - especially the fifth gen hatch - but was turned off by the seventh. They went with a tall, dorky look and it got poor reviews for its suspension and handling. I didn't even bother with a test drive when I was looking for a new compact car in 2004. They look a bit better to me now that an even taller, dorkier look is common with compacts and subcompacts. I've gotten used to it.
I didn't mind the look of the eighth gen, but it didn't seem to drive quite as nicely as the fifth/sixth while also feeling more cramped and providing less visibility. Not a bad car, but those 90's Civics were just so good.
I honestly thought 01-05 was the worst Civic generation.
Same here. I loved the fifth and sixth gen Civics - especially the fifth gen hatch - but was turned off by the seventh. They went with a tall, dorky look and it got poor reviews for its suspension and handling. I didn't even bother with a test drive when I was looking for a new compact car in 2004. They look a bit better to me now that an even taller, dorkier look is common with compacts and subcompacts. I've gotten used to it.
I didn't mind the look of the eighth gen, but it didn't seem to drive quite as nicely as the fifth/sixth while also feeling more cramped and providing less visibility. Not a bad car, but those 90's Civics were just so good.
I bought a 2001 Civic LX sedan 5 spd. and owned it for 1 year. The drive train was flawless (and the clutch/shifter were phenomenal)but there were problems in paradise. The a/c was weak...never did adequately cool the car. To compensate, the floor vents for the heater barely worked...most of the heat would come out the defrost or dash vents...cold feet for most of the winter. Add bad struts, ball joints and a very bouncy rear suspension and I dumped the thing. I know that was the first year for that model and later ones were improved but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Meanwhile the used '96 Accord V6 that I currently use as my daily driver has accumulated an additional 42,000 miles in the last year and NOTHING has gone wrong with the car...NOTHING. Air is ice cold...heater will cook a small chicken...handles well and gets an honest 28-30 mpg at 60mph with the V6 (only rated for 26 I believe). I love that car. Honda does need to go back to it's roots.
I think that is why Consumer Reports is trying to say about Honda. It isn't that they haven't "kept up" with the competition, it is that they have gone backwards so far that their products do not measure up to the EXCELLENT products they were putting out from about 1980-1998. The quality during those years was generally excellent with great attention to detail, excellent durability and very good or excellent quality too.
I think things started to go very wrong for Honda when Mr. Honda passed away back in the early 90s. Honda has never been the same since.
I think a huge problem for Honda is that when Mr Honda was alive they did not come to decisions by consensus. That has been the biggest problem for them over the past 15 years or so.
I think things started to go very wrong for Honda when Mr. Honda passed away back in the early 90s. Honda has never been the same since.
I think a huge problem for Honda is that when Mr Honda was alive they did not come to decisions by consensus. That has been the biggest problem for them over the past 15 years or so.
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