Serious question and welcome all input. It appears that conventional oils have closed the gap with synthetics compared to a few years ago. So if you dont live in an extreme environment is it even worth it to stick with synthetics. Will the best conventional oils supply all the protection you need? I am not too cheap to buy synthetics but if conventional will get the job done is it worth it? I have to change my oil based on time rather than miles as I drive a lot of short trips. Thanks.
Is there still a case for synthetics?
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There's still a case for a full synthectic oil for applications such as DI, Turbo/SuperChargers, very high output engines that the owners will be trying to use all of that power and for extreme tempurature conditions expecially the fridged cold(even moreso than the very hot) for better startup protection. I guess if you lived in Death Valley, you'd want a full syn!
Otherwise, most regular motor oils that meet the auto manufactures recomendations will be fine for most climates and driving conditions but, you'll have to be your own judge!
Otherwise, most regular motor oils that meet the auto manufactures recomendations will be fine for most climates and driving conditions but, you'll have to be your own judge!
The question really is: Is there still a case for conventionals?
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
Without getting too deep and opening Pandora's box, here goes: As long as there are mfgs calling for the use of synthetic oil there'll be a case and need for it.
The conventional/synthetic line has become so blurred in the US that the question is really moot. As long as the oil meets the performance specs for the application, it will be fine regardless of how the base stock was derived...
That said, you would think that I am a synthetic junky based on the oils in my sig, however, I bought all but the M1 0W40 on clearance, at prices ranging from $1 to $2 a quart...so, I am more of a bargain shopper than I am a fan boy for a particular oil...but since I once lost a turbocharger to coke in the bearings, I sleep better with a synthetic in my turbo cars...
That said, you would think that I am a synthetic junky based on the oils in my sig, however, I bought all but the M1 0W40 on clearance, at prices ranging from $1 to $2 a quart...so, I am more of a bargain shopper than I am a fan boy for a particular oil...but since I once lost a turbocharger to coke in the bearings, I sleep better with a synthetic in my turbo cars...
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And some good prices can be had on some brands of synthetic that make the waters a little murkier as to whether they are worth it. True, modern conventional oils are closing the gap, but you also have to factor in the additive package you get with different brands. The add pack makes up a big chunk of what you are getting in that bottle of motor oil. And with some engines, for instance GM's AFM equipped small blocks, the add pack can really make a difference in how things hold up.
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Originally Posted By: Martin10
Serious question and welcome all input. It appears that conventional oils have closed the gap with synthetics compared to a few years ago. So if you dont live in an extreme environment is it even worth it to stick with synthetics. Will the best conventional oils supply all the protection you need? I am not too cheap to buy synthetics but if conventional will get the job done is it worth it? I have to change my oil based on time rather than miles as I drive a lot of short trips. Thanks.
Short trips usually equal fuel dilution and if that is the case a synthetic is not going to help. The only thing that will is a shorter OCI and thus in your case synthetics are not cost effective. There are still cases to be made for the use of synthetics--long OCIs, turbo-charged engines, etc.
Serious question and welcome all input. It appears that conventional oils have closed the gap with synthetics compared to a few years ago. So if you dont live in an extreme environment is it even worth it to stick with synthetics. Will the best conventional oils supply all the protection you need? I am not too cheap to buy synthetics but if conventional will get the job done is it worth it? I have to change my oil based on time rather than miles as I drive a lot of short trips. Thanks.
Short trips usually equal fuel dilution and if that is the case a synthetic is not going to help. The only thing that will is a shorter OCI and thus in your case synthetics are not cost effective. There are still cases to be made for the use of synthetics--long OCIs, turbo-charged engines, etc.
"Synthetic" is not a spec. There is a case for lubricants on a mfg Approval list that meet more stringent requirements.
There are no "conventional" current ILSAC oil.
There are no "conventional" current ILSAC oil.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
There's still a case for a full synthectic oil for applications such as DI, Turbo/SuperChargers, very high output engines that the owners will be trying to use all of that power and for extreme tempurature conditions expecially the fridged cold(even moreso than the very hot) for better startup protection. I guess if you lived in Death Valley, you'd want a full syn!
I've been to Death Valley in summer. It was a 2001 Toyota Camry V6 and before this long trip I did an oil change with a "conventional" 10W-30 (don't recall which one - might have been Mobil since it was cheap). Car did just fine. I don't believe motor oil is that much of a concern for a car driven normally, but a properly operating cooling system is. I do get that oil temps will be marginally higher because of higher ambient temps, but still the cooling system is the one controlling the oil temps for the most part.
There's still a case for a full synthectic oil for applications such as DI, Turbo/SuperChargers, very high output engines that the owners will be trying to use all of that power and for extreme tempurature conditions expecially the fridged cold(even moreso than the very hot) for better startup protection. I guess if you lived in Death Valley, you'd want a full syn!
I've been to Death Valley in summer. It was a 2001 Toyota Camry V6 and before this long trip I did an oil change with a "conventional" 10W-30 (don't recall which one - might have been Mobil since it was cheap). Car did just fine. I don't believe motor oil is that much of a concern for a car driven normally, but a properly operating cooling system is. I do get that oil temps will be marginally higher because of higher ambient temps, but still the cooling system is the one controlling the oil temps for the most part.
Yea, I've been to Phoenix in August for 3 weeks with FF in a new rental car and it did fine at 118-120 degs F.
I think that if I lived and drove through DV for a whole OCI(5K miles), I may want a better oil in my own car for the duration of everyday driving for 3-5 months.
There's been a few engines opened up lately (on here) that have had conventional allegedly changed at 3K religiously that didn't look great inside-if you have a known sludger or do a lot of short trips, synthetic is cheap insurance. Of course, if you have a diesel that sits outside in winter & you don't (or can't) plug in a block heater, syn is a good idea there too.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
"Synthetic" is not a spec. There is a case for lubricants on a mfg Approval list that meet more stringent requirements.
Well put.
"Synthetic" is not a spec. There is a case for lubricants on a mfg Approval list that meet more stringent requirements.
Well put.
Engines requiring 0w-20 was originally an implicit manufacturer requirement for synthetic, because no conventionals were available in that weight. Later a semi-synthetic became available in 0w-20. I still don't know of any conventional 0w-20's but that may change at any moment.
The Toyota Corolla OCI of 10K miles for an already light weight of 0w-20 is another requirement that would challenge the shear resistance of conventional oils.
But as has been already pointed-out, SN oils are already pretty much semi-syn's.
To answer your question, given your lack of an extreme environment, and assuming no Turbo's or other challenging engines such as some GDI, changing a conventional more often to compensate for short-tripping will provide more than sufficient protection.
The Toyota Corolla OCI of 10K miles for an already light weight of 0w-20 is another requirement that would challenge the shear resistance of conventional oils.
But as has been already pointed-out, SN oils are already pretty much semi-syn's.
To answer your question, given your lack of an extreme environment, and assuming no Turbo's or other challenging engines such as some GDI, changing a conventional more often to compensate for short-tripping will provide more than sufficient protection.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The question really is: Is there still a case for conventionals?
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
X2 if you live in the US where syn is cheap. Specs and approvals may be a better judge of what is a better oil and synthetics dominate in those areas.
The question really is: Is there still a case for conventionals?
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
X2 if you live in the US where syn is cheap. Specs and approvals may be a better judge of what is a better oil and synthetics dominate in those areas.
Originally Posted By: Capa
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The question really is: Is there still a case for conventionals?
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
X2 if you live in the US where syn is cheap. Specs and approvals may be a better judge of what is a better oil and synthetics dominate in those areas.
I agree with this line of thinking in a vehicle that is mechanically sound. In an oil burner or an engine that suffers from extreme fuel dilution,or if running some type of flush I use whatever is cheapest.
I don't believe in the nonsense that synthetics reduce more friction nor do I believe that synthetics protect better than conventionals however I'm confident that they last longer in service so I can cut my maintenance practices in half by running the oil twice as long.
And of course there's the fact that every time the oil is changed wear metals increase until the new anti-wear layer is applied by the new oil,which lessens wear over the long term.
There is of course a case to be made about using 0w grades in extremely cold winter climates however I think I'm going to spend the 40 bucks for an oil pan heater,or try to find a dipstick heater which will eliminate any need for a 0w except under the harshest of conditions.
I've just bought a recirculating coolant heater for 40 bucks which will blow heat nearly immediately upon start up and once I install the oil pan heater I lessen the need for any real warm up even when those -40 mornings hit and I'm confident the 100 bucks total I spend on both heaters will pay for themselves in less fuel consumed at idle to warm up the car and I'm more comfortable using a 5w oil which can usually be bought cheaper than a 0w.
With oil pan and recirculating heaters installed I've got no doubt that a can use any 5w-20 or 5w30 conventional and because the fluids are pre-warmed I'm ahead of the game.
Now all I need is an oil pre-pressurizing pump to pump the oil before start up and I bet I can almost completely eliminate start up wear.
Well eliminate enough so that it's a complete non issue.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The question really is: Is there still a case for conventionals?
The price difference has narrowed so much synthetics with the extended OCI's they offer are a much better buy, especially when you consider there is less filters to buy and less work to do with the extended OC's.
X2 if you live in the US where syn is cheap. Specs and approvals may be a better judge of what is a better oil and synthetics dominate in those areas.
I agree with this line of thinking in a vehicle that is mechanically sound. In an oil burner or an engine that suffers from extreme fuel dilution,or if running some type of flush I use whatever is cheapest.
I don't believe in the nonsense that synthetics reduce more friction nor do I believe that synthetics protect better than conventionals however I'm confident that they last longer in service so I can cut my maintenance practices in half by running the oil twice as long.
And of course there's the fact that every time the oil is changed wear metals increase until the new anti-wear layer is applied by the new oil,which lessens wear over the long term.
There is of course a case to be made about using 0w grades in extremely cold winter climates however I think I'm going to spend the 40 bucks for an oil pan heater,or try to find a dipstick heater which will eliminate any need for a 0w except under the harshest of conditions.
I've just bought a recirculating coolant heater for 40 bucks which will blow heat nearly immediately upon start up and once I install the oil pan heater I lessen the need for any real warm up even when those -40 mornings hit and I'm confident the 100 bucks total I spend on both heaters will pay for themselves in less fuel consumed at idle to warm up the car and I'm more comfortable using a 5w oil which can usually be bought cheaper than a 0w.
With oil pan and recirculating heaters installed I've got no doubt that a can use any 5w-20 or 5w30 conventional and because the fluids are pre-warmed I'm ahead of the game.
Now all I need is an oil pre-pressurizing pump to pump the oil before start up and I bet I can almost completely eliminate start up wear.
Well eliminate enough so that it's a complete non issue.
With full synthetic oil not being that much more money, it only makes sense.
If you change your oil every 5K, is the extra $10 for a 5 quart jug really a difference maker?
If you change your oil every 5K, is the extra $10 for a 5 quart jug really a difference maker?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Martin10
Serious question and welcome all input. It appears that conventional oils have closed the gap with synthetics compared to a few years ago. So if you dont live in an extreme environment is it even worth it to stick with synthetics. Will the best conventional oils supply all the protection you need? I am not too cheap to buy synthetics but if conventional will get the job done is it worth it? I have to change my oil based on time rather than miles as I drive a lot of short trips. Thanks.
Short trips usually equal fuel dilution and if that is the case a synthetic is not going to help. The only thing that will is a shorter OCI and thus in your case synthetics are not cost effective. There are still cases to be made for the use of synthetics--long OCIs, turbo-charged engines, etc.
Important point. Unless your short trips are in frigid arctic weather (and you're already told us you're in Virginia), conventional oil will work very well for you.
Originally Posted By: Martin10
Serious question and welcome all input. It appears that conventional oils have closed the gap with synthetics compared to a few years ago. So if you dont live in an extreme environment is it even worth it to stick with synthetics. Will the best conventional oils supply all the protection you need? I am not too cheap to buy synthetics but if conventional will get the job done is it worth it? I have to change my oil based on time rather than miles as I drive a lot of short trips. Thanks.
Short trips usually equal fuel dilution and if that is the case a synthetic is not going to help. The only thing that will is a shorter OCI and thus in your case synthetics are not cost effective. There are still cases to be made for the use of synthetics--long OCIs, turbo-charged engines, etc.
Important point. Unless your short trips are in frigid arctic weather (and you're already told us you're in Virginia), conventional oil will work very well for you.
I run it in the Canadian winter, other than that, conventional does just fine.
Here's my 2 cents. Own a 98 corolla. have super tech dino 10w30 in it(like using it warmer time). Past few weeks temp at night have gone to the lower 40's. starting car, i can hear what sounds like and rapid oil pressure im guessing...to get the oi up. in the past using 5w30 dino in a 85 isuzu hatchback, did the same and a 95 neon. At least witht e neon, using quaker state synthetic, 5w30, car started instantly, ame as valvoline synthetic and mobil 1. only brands ive tried so far in winter temps. jaunuary feb coems along its gunna get in the teens here, southwest CT..so def switching too synthetic soon...i just think or have learned in these temops, a dino 5w30 wont start as good n smooth. never tried ow20 yet..seems too thin.
Originally Posted By: stchman
If you change your oil every 5K, is the extra $10 for a 5 quart jug really a difference maker?
It is if you have to buy the matching extra quart for top off. $24.97 + $7.74 + $2.70 Tax = $35.41
If you change your oil every 5K, is the extra $10 for a 5 quart jug really a difference maker?
It is if you have to buy the matching extra quart for top off. $24.97 + $7.74 + $2.70 Tax = $35.41
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