Is there still a case for synthetics?

[raytseng]

I am in the camp that the question should be flipped and is there a case for conventional.

The "conventional" these days are so high tech, that my assumption is that the process, time and effort to create them are pretty much the same as a "synthetic". I think the oil company can pump out a quart of "synthetic" for the same price as a quart of "conventional". Quotes intentional.

But to sell oil, you need to have sales and marketing of a product line so people can pick the middle one instead of the cheapest or most expensive. Just like the three bears.

There are a couple other similar situations in other markets.
For computer CPUs; once the process is refined; all the chips off the line can run at the fastest speed. But to have a product line, Intel or AMD will limit the speed on the chips artificially. Fewer customers buy the cheapest or expensive, but you need those markers to
protect the middle market. You can't just give away a free upgrade even though it costs you nothing.

For the automotive crowd, this is the same as engine detuning, to purposely retard an engine, so you can have a economy, medium, or high-end car. The customer gets what they paid for, even though the price to the manufacturer was the same for the differing products

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
I can see a high end syn holding up a bit better, but, I would rather have a fresh(shorter OCI) fill of name brand 5w30 conventional than the 5/20 syn.

Why? In an engine that is specified to use 5W-20 what does 5w30 bring to the table?

It brings leeway, safety margin in case of any heating problems in lieu of CAFE figures. I am not trying to convince anybody, just voicing my observations over several years. It's about minimizing the chance any high dollar engine damage in case of an overheating problem. Down here, we see a lot of this especially after a car is a few years old and out of warranty.

If you overheat an engine to the point of it failing with xW-20, it is going to fail with xW-30 as well. You will certainly not escape without a major repair bill even if the engine does not completely seize. From my jaded point of view this is akin to comparing the toxicity of highly poisonous snakes. A Fierce Snake/Inland Taipan might kill you in 55 minutes and a Eastern Brown Snake might kill you in 60 minutes. The point is DEAD is DEAD!

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
I can see a high end syn holding up a bit better, but, I would rather have a fresh(shorter OCI) fill of name brand 5w30 conventional than the 5/20 syn.

Why? In an engine that is specified to use 5W-20 what does 5w30 bring to the table?

It brings leeway, safety margin in case of any heating problems in lieu of CAFE figures. I am not trying to convince anybody, just voicing my observations over several years. It's about minimizing the chance any high dollar engine damage in case of an overheating problem. Down here, we see a lot of this especially after a car is a few years old and out of warranty.

If you overheat an engine to the point of it failing with xW-20, it is going to fail with xW-30 as well. You will certainly not escape without a major repair bill even if the engine does not completely seize. From my jaded point of view this is akin to comparing the toxicity of highly poisonous snakes. A Fierce Snake/Inland Taipan might kill you in 55 minutes and a Eastern Brown Snake might kill you in 60 minutes. The point is DEAD is DEAD!

I actually drove my '95 Integra GS-R for about 2 miles home after a coolant hose burst. I mean - steam was rising out of the hood and people behind me were dropping way back. I had Mobil 1 5w30 in there, although I don't know if that helped any. Some motor oils do cool better though. The radiator did eventually fail after about 125K miles, but the plastic tank cracked. It drove just fine for about 30K miles after that. I would have been OK with the car, but was looking to sell when it got stolen and recovered with lots of missing parts.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Why do member's insist that Phillips Lubricants PCMO line is something special? Just because the label on the bottle says synthetic blend?

And, of course many conventionals do meet the Ford specification without being explicit blends or synthetics.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
Dave, did not say anything about OPERATING TEMPERATURE. I mentioned OVERHEATING conditions.

We can play any game you like.........


Why is there overheating? Cooling system not working?

 

[Garak]

In the millions of miles of taxi service using QS conventional, there was never one overheating event. So, like you say, cooling system not working. I'd rather not rely on a synthetic oil to save my engine because the cooling system was poorly maintained or inadequately designed.

 

[dave1251]

I can only agree.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Garak
In the millions of miles of taxi service using QS conventional, there was never one overheating event. So, like you say, cooling system not working. I'd rather not rely on a synthetic oil to save my engine because the cooling system was poorly maintained or inadequately designed.

I've coolant hoses burst on me twice, a slow leak in the radiator once, a radiator crack right when I was driving on the freeway, and a radiator fan that wouldn't turn on during a traffic jam on a hot day. I don't know anything exactly saved my engine, but everything was properly functional afterwards.

The radiator fan was odd. I was stuck in massive freeway traffic and the coolant temp gauge kept on creeping up. It was almost a parking lot with periodic movement. When I could get up to 20 MPH the temp went down to normal on the gauge.

I don't know if Mobil 1 saved my engine, but it sure didn't hurt.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: Garak
In the millions of miles of taxi service using QS conventional, there was never one overheating event. So, like you say, cooling system not working. I'd rather not rely on a synthetic oil to save my engine because the cooling system was poorly maintained or inadequately designed.


Yeah, In the million times I banged my head against the wall, I never broke my leg.

Cooling issues are best solved with addressing the cooling system. It really does not measure heavily on the oil. Sure the oil might help in a very limited window but it seems like a mute point if you have maintained the cooling system. Sure there might be the time I bang my head against the wall, twist funny, and might break my leg but the brace I wear just-in-case might save it. I did break my foot walking off the field after practice after a whistle but that is beside the point.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I've coolant hoses burst on me twice, a slow leak in the radiator once, a radiator crack right when I was driving on the freeway, and a radiator fan that wouldn't turn on during a traffic jam on a hot day. I don't know anything exactly saved my engine, but everything was properly functional afterwards.

The point is that overheating events aren't exactly subtle and seamless. Hoses bursting are pretty darned obvious, as are fan failures in city traffic. Slow leaks and lazy thermostats aren't quite as much an emergency, but they can be noticed fairly readily. I'm not saying the taxis never had such issues (from the minor leaks to hoses bursting), but paying a modicum of attention tends to avert disaster.

The guys who had the overheating in the industry were those that were either oblivious or simply pushed the envelope. When fan clutches or thermostats were lazy, they'd open the hood a notch with the misguided attempt at increasing airflow. Then, when something went wrong, they were scrambling.