Is electromagnetic pulse a terrorist threat to the U.S.?

TallPaul · Oct 13, 2005

quote:

According to a report issued last summer by a blue-ribbon, Congressionally-mandated commission, a single specialized nuclear weapon delivered to an altitude of a few hundred miles over the United States by a ballistic missile would be “capable of causing catastrophe for the nation.”

... at a height of 300 miles, the entire continental United States, some of its offshore areas and parts of Canada and Mexico would be affected. What is more, as the nuclear explosion’s fireball expands in space, it would generate additional electrical currents in the Earth below and in extended electrical conductors, such as electricity transmission lines. If the electrical wiring of things like computers, microchips and power grids is exposed to these effects, they may be temporarily or permanently disabled.

Al · Oct 13, 2005

I think ovewr the years a lot of electronics have beeen hardened against this threat.

Honestly I think this an over-reaction. Its unlikely that NK (only likely country able to do this) is gonna' launch a missle at us. They are more likely to have one or many smuggled in.

We have more immediate threats: Nuclear weapons smuggled in and detonated in one(or several) of our cities, Bankruptcy, Illegal invasion/immigration, and Bird Flu. Any of these could go a long way of destroying this country.

oilyriser · Oct 13, 2005

The terrorists have already succeeded in their goal of creating fear and paranoia in the US.

Kestas · Oct 13, 2005

Even if they could accomplish this, retaliation would be swift and harsh, and we'd have the rest of the world back on our side. We would know where the rocket was launched from.

kanling · Oct 13, 2005

EMP was a well known and serious threat during the cold war mainly because it had potential to disrupt military command and control. I think it might have been overhyped a little at that time.

This article quote sounds way overhyped. I doubt the terrorists are going to be in a position to launch a powerful nuclear warhead by ICBM at any point in the near future.

XS650 · Oct 13, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by kanling:
EMP was a well known and serious threat during the cold war mainly because it had potential to disrupt military command and control. I think it might have been overhyped a little at that time.

I was in the Military/Industrial complex in the cold war era working on a variety of systems. I have seen design requirents and test results that indicate it wasn't over hyped.

If you dig through Google you can find some references to Pacific Island nuclear tests that cause power system interuptions in Hawaii several hundred miles away. And that was pre-delicate electronic control on verything.

JHZR2 · Oct 13, 2005

pulse weapons are coming along... a lot of efforts by the usuals... Doesnt have to be a nuke...

JMH

1sttruck · Oct 13, 2005

"If you dig through Google you can find some references to Pacific Island nuclear tests that cause power system interuptions in Hawaii several hundred miles away. And that was pre-delicate electronic control on verything."

Yup. The best documentary that I've seen on nuclear explosions is:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000IML5/102-3880486-3710509?v=glance&n=130&v=glance

Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie (1995)

where they also show high altitude air bursts. The TV movie 'The Day After' had a pretty realistic scenario on the possible effects. I use to work at place where we had to work to make mundane commercial products reliable with respect to 'radiated susceptability', ESD and such, and worked a lot harder for occasional requests to 'harden' products. The miltary has made to the effort to harden componenets and systems but consumer products aren't designed with that in mind.

Win · Oct 13, 2005

EMP can wipe out non hardened electronics.

I still have (and use daily) all of my vacuum tube ham radio equipment which is somewhat more hardened than the solid state junk made today.

TallPaul · Oct 13, 2005

quote:

In particular, as the EMP Threat Commission put it:

The emerging threat environment, characterized by a wide spectrum of actors that include near-peers, established nuclear powers, rogue nations, sub-national groups, and terrorist organizations that either now have access to nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles or may have such access over the next 15 years, have combined to raise the risk of EMP attack and adverse consequences on the U.S. to a level that is not acceptable.

quote:

Ship-launched ballistic missiles have another advantage: The “return address” of the attacker may not be confidently fixed, especially if the missile is a generic Scud-type weapon available in many arsenals around the world. As just one example, in December 2002, North Korea got away with delivering twelve such missiles to Osama bin Laden’s native Yemen. And Al Qaeda is estimated to have a score or more of sea-going vessels, any of which could readily be fitted with a Scud launcher and could try to steam undetected within range of our shores.

quote:

Particularly with the end of the Cold War, the Pentagon has been reluctant to pay the costs associated with shielding much of its equipment from electromagnetic pulses.
...
The military should also be concerned that although the sorts of shielding it has done in the past may be sufficient to protect against the EMP effects of traditional nuclear weapons designs, weapons optimized for such effects may well be able to defeat those measures.

K-Man · Oct 14, 2005

In the 1980s I worked for an electrical supplies wholesaler. Back then a number of military facilities in the Norfolk area began upgrading most of their main electrical cables from 5 kV unshielded to 15 (or more) kV shielded. Your house wiring is typically rated for 600 V (0.6 kV) maximum and, of course, typically runs only 120-240 V. The 15 kV cable was then pushing $10 per foot, so these upgrades were pretty expensive.

It wasn't hard to figure out that the purpose of the upgrades was EMP hardening. And yes, the EMP scenario in the link given is plausible. I've said for years that if terrorists wanted to cause the most damage to the US economy with a nuke and a missile, mindlessly taking out a city would not be the answer, but launching the missile into orbit and detonating the nuke a couple of hundred miles above (say) St. Louis would.

Taking out electronics and many electrical systems coast to coast would cost the US trillions. And we might not be able to respond effectively with communications, power, and electronics-dependent motor vehicles and gizmos out of commission. Joe Blow wouldn't even know what hit him. All he would know after the fact is that his power's off, his phone's dead, his battery-operated electronic devices (radio, clocks, cell phone) don't work, and his car won't start unless it's really old. And the military does depend to some degree on civilian stuff.

There have been at least two (I think three) major rounds of testimony before Congress on the EMP threat. Don't panic, but do take it seriously.

oilyriser · Oct 14, 2005

An easier way for a low-tech group to threaten the advanced nations is to explode a shrapnel bomb at geostationary altitude, but on a polar obrit.

nortones2 · Oct 14, 2005

Thought the EM pulse was the reason the USSR designed all their combat aircraft with miniaturised vacuum tubes (valves). Now the tubes sold for use in exotic amplifiers. Swords into ploughshares

kloppilt · Oct 14, 2005

Given that the most sophisticated weapon the terrorists used in 2001 was a box cutter, and the current weapon of choice is a suicide bomber, I highly doubt that they will use a nucular device any time soon.

XS650 · Oct 14, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Win:
EMP can wipe out non hardened electronics.

I still have (and use daily) all of my vacuum tube ham radio equipment which is somewhat more hardened than the solid state junk made today.

Yeah, but you wouldn't have anyone to talk to except a few other grumpy old hams with pleostine era equipment.

XS650 · Oct 14, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by kloppilt:
Given that the most sophisticated weapon the terrorists used in 2001 was a box cutter, and the current weapon of choice is a suicide bomber, I highly doubt that they will use a nucular device any time soon.

Correction, the most advanced weapons they used were modern jet aircraft. Pretty **** effective when operated by fanatics looking for thier 72 virgins each.

Win · Oct 14, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

Originally posted by Win:
EMP can wipe out non hardened electronics.

I still have (and use daily) all of my vacuum tube ham radio equipment which is somewhat more hardened than the solid state junk made today.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but you wouldn't have anyone to talk to except a few other grumpy old hams with pleostine era equipment.

If only I could be restored as easily as an old radio.

I have a firebottle TV, maybe if someone could get a transmitter running, I could watch Doprah ....