Interesting convo with local kia service advisor

[edyvw]

Every body knows about MM warranty act. The problem is going head to head with a corp that can afford way more/better lawyers than would be worth for a kia engine. I'd rather pay $100 more per year for them to use my provided oil than have to deal with it.

That depends on the manufacturer and the dealership.
When SCR mixer failed on my BMW X5 35d, the advisor asked me: what oil you use? Me: Mobil1 ESP 5W30, it is LL04. That settled that conversation, they covered a mixer 6,000mls out of warranty. No receipts, no carfax etc.

 

[02SE]

Certainly your perogative. Worse came to worse, go to a different dealership. I doubt they would deny a claim simply becasue you changed your own oil to be honest. As long as you maintain a log/receipts.

I know a guy who did all of his own maintenance on his BMW Motorcycle, and he documented it better than Ive ever seen anyone do. He had receipts for the correct fluids and parts, detailed time-and-date stamped pictures of the entire procedures being performed, all in a binder that was arguably more detailed than a factory service manual.

When his bike developed a mechanical issue that SHOULD have been covered, BMW corporate dug in, and the warranty was denied. The argument was that despite the overly detailed binder with detailed pics, the owner couldn't prove it was HIS bike in the pictures.

The bike owner is a lawyer, who no longer owns a BMW, and actively discourages others from doing so...

 

[Urshurak776]

I know a guy who did all of his own maintenance on his BMW Motorcycle, and he documented it better than Ive ever seen anyone do. He had receipts for the correct fluids and parts, detailed time-and-date stamped pictures of the entire procedures being performed, all in a binder that was arguably more detailed than a factory service manual.

When his bike developed a mechanical issue that SHOULD have been covered, BMW corporate dug in, and the warranty was denied. The argument was that despite the overly detailed binder with detailed pics, the owner couldn't prove it was HIS bike in the pictures.

The bike owner is a lawyer, who no longer owns a BMW, and actively discourages others from doing so...

Yikes! Doesn't sound like anything he could have done would have been good enough. What was the issue he was having on the bike?

A guy in my work group had a BMW. He sold it also, but said it was a good bike, he just didn't ride it much anymore.

 

[dishdude]

Hmm, a guy would keep buying oil and filters, keep receipts but not do oil changes?

As soon as they pull the valve cover or oil pan they know if the oil was changed regularly or not.

 

[loneryder]

They only have to look at the oil and under the valve covers to know if the oil was changed or not. I bought a 20 yr. old MB with a Carfax record of only 3 oil changes in 100k miles. VC gaskets were leaking so I had them changed. This is what they found. Obviously it had regular oil changes. So if this was a warranty claim, do you think they would deny it due to no record of oil changes.

 

[The Critic]

As soon as they pull the valve cover or oil pan they know if the oil was changed regularly or not.

It usually doesn't go that far. Once the claim gets denied from lack of supporting documentation, disassembling the engine is unlikely to change the manufacturer's mind.

From the manufacturer's POV, it's a question of compliance....not so much the physical evidence.

 

[siriusc1024]

I just take pictures with my phone. The location and time are automatically saved in the metadata. Lot stronger than an oil receipt.

 

[Ault 416]

Find a different dealer. I do all the maintenance on our 3 Hyundai's. I keep all the filter receipts from the dealer and oil receipts as well. When my 2013 succumbed to a rod knock the dealer didn't even ask for them. They pulled the valve cover and said it was good to go for a new engine.

 

[02SE]

Yikes! Doesn't sound like anything he could have done would have been good enough. What was the issue he was having on the bike?

A guy in my work group had a BMW. He sold it also, but said it was a good bike, he just didn't ride it much anymore.

Cam/valvetrain issues.

We have four BMW's (Two bikes, two cars). Love them all, but only one is currently in warranty. The one still in warranty also gets Dealer maintained under the 'free' maintenance program, and the work is performed by a friend and former colleague of mine. The one still in warranty has an engine which the Internet likes to say is a ticking time-bomb. My BMW Tech friend isn't nearly as leery of them, unless they've been neglected.

 

[andrew_j]

I'm sure none of the manufacturers like it. They want the money for maintaining the vehicle. They still can't deny your warranty claim if you have receipts for your oil changes you did yourself. I have talked to the Mazda group in my area. They don't seem to care as long as you have the receipts for what you used. Keep a maintenance log also. IN most cases, regardless of manufacturer, it should be fine.

Manufacturers don’t get any money for maintenance , dealers do.

They lose money on expensive warranty claims especially by neglectful owners who claim they changed oil. It takes work to validate an owners receipts which could mean they bought oil and filter but never actually changed it.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

My friend ran into this issue. I told him to take pictures of the filter and oil and the odometer.
He owned a KIA...
Dealer denied warranty....
He offered proof, they did not care.
He lawyered up and in the end they paid for everything including his lawyer.

 

[nobb]

I'm not sure if this is a Kia/Hyundai corporate issue or a dealership issue. Often times it's luck of the draw and service advisors will make up all sort of excuses because dealers know how much of a pain some warranty claims can be especially if there's any bit of plausible deniability.

For myself, I personally use OE filters, along with dated receipts showing I purchased the parts close to the service date, and also a picture of the odometer at time of service.

 

[MCompact]

Cam/valvetrain issues.

We have four BMW's (Two bikes, two cars). Love them all, but only one is currently in warranty. The one still in warranty also gets Dealer maintained under the 'free' maintenance program, and the work is performed by a friend and former colleague of mine. The one still in warranty has an engine which the Internet likes to say is a ticking time-bomb. My BMW Tech friend isn't nearly as leery of them, unless they've been neglected.

When I worked at BMW we tried to help customers whenever possible. So many service advisors are adversarial or outright dishonest or rude.

 

[wemay]

Took the Palisade into Hyundai for a tire rotation. They told me, as long as you can supply receipts, there's no issue performing your own maintenance. This came up after he offered me a discounted oil change to which I politely declined, having recently done one. No fuss, no drama, no double talk.

 

[PWMDMD]

Every body knows about MM warranty act. The problem is going head to head with a corp that can afford way more/better lawyers than would be worth for a kia engine. I'd rather pay $100 more per year for them to use my provided oil than have to deal with it.

I have a friend who takes MM cases, not a ton of them but a few per year, and guess what has NEVER happened in a case where a dealership/manufacturer was wrongfully denying a warranty claim? She has never gone to court over a case. She has occasionally settled cases as soon as a LS was filed. Mostly, she has had to write a single letter and occasionally there's been some back and forth. She has counseled many clients that they do not have a case because what they or someone else did was likely the proximate cause of the failure. What she made clear was the dealership/manufacturer often bluffs because many people accept that and pay but there is nothing to be gained by the manufacturer litigating the case as it would cost several times more than the cost of the warranty claim. Manufacturers at any point may have many many of these cases vs the one case the customer is dealing with and legal fees add up quickly. Add in bad press and it doesn't make sense for the manufacturer to fight these claims. It costs a couple hundred dollars for her to write a letter.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

When I worked at BMW we tried to help customers whenever possible. So many service advisors are adversarial or outright dishonest or rude.

That's because their paycheck depends on how many gallons of windshield washer fluid and how many muffler bearings they are able to push on unsuspecting customers.

 

[bubbanik]

He didn't say it's getting rejected. He's saying they don't like it. Ive been told by another advisor here that a customer kept meticulous tracking and they honored the warranty.

I had the same thing. Did all my own maintenance with spotless records. Motor blew at 24K miles. Had the motor changed without question.

 

[dubber09]

I may be wrong but I understand when warranty is approved and dealer has to perform the work their techs get a hit on paycheck thus never look forward to doing these types of work. Dealer doesn't make money on this and would rather have a paying customer in and techs making money for the dealer while doing other jobs.

 

[eljefino]

Obviously it had regular oil changes. So if this was a warranty claim, do you think they would deny it due to no record of oil changes.

You're assuming they're working in good faith. Watch them say "no". What's your next move? Even if half the customers lawyer up, the manufacturer can just cave at that point and pay what they were going to pay anyway. The other half of people will leave a bad Yelp review and Kia wins.

OP's anecdote relates what someone in the Kia business says happens, since he witnesses it happen, and I have no reason to disbelieve it.

 

[dishdude]

I may be wrong but I understand when warranty is approved and dealer has to perform the work their techs get a hit on paycheck thus never look forward to doing these types of work. Dealer doesn't make money on this and would rather have a paying customer in and techs making money for the dealer while doing other jobs.

Warranty labor generally pays 7/10 of retail.