Interesting comment by USA Admiral Gilday about China

[Trav]

I often wonder for whose benefit this move to EV and discontinuation of gasoline and diesel vehicles are all in aid of. Follow the money which is generally Chicom money that is lining the pockets of the people that tell you this will be good and cheaper for you. They know it is a bald faced lie but 10% is a lot of wood to pass up.
IMO there will never be a war with China, they already own a lot of this countries economy.

CATL To Supply Ford, BMW, And Others With Batteries From North American Plant | Carscoops

CATL's EV battery plant in the U.S. will likely be located in South Carolina or Kentucky

www.carscoops.com

 

[Pew]

We've slacked on technological advancements and long term self-sustainability in so long that I'm not surprised. Upper management is a joke too, as the military has turned into a tool for politicians and garbage career brass to use for their own benefit. Anybody remember @Astro14 story about the F14 pilot that bested the F15 but was forced to keep quiet because the F15 was marketed as nearly undefeatable and allies already put their order in for the F15s?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Things are not looking as good for China long term. Their demographics are bad.

This - they have the worst demographic in history - due to the one child policy. There manufacturing labor costs have gone up 18X in 30 years. Manufacturers are leaving china for cheaper asian countries and even Mexico.

Not to mention they import half their food and 80% of their energy.

Biggest paper tiger in history.

In before the lock!

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

We've slacked on technological advancements and long term self-sustainability in so long that I'm not surprised. Upper management is a joke too, as the military has turned into a tool for politicians and garbage career brass to use for their own benefit. Anybody remember @Astro14 story about the F14 pilot that bested the F15 but was forced to keep quiet because the F15 was marketed as nearly undefeatable and allies already put their order in for the F15s?

And yet, the F-15 doesn't have a kill ratio because you can't divide by zero. In combat, 104 kills and no losses. I think the F-15 marketing was appropriate to the very few Allies that were allowed to buy them at that time.
Antedotal incidents do not make a case unless there are a lot of them. And trust me, there weren't a lot of F-14s that could win a dogfight with an F-15. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be in a Strike Eagle attacking U.S. ships defended by Tomcats. That scenario would have results much more favorable to the F-14.

In my opinion, our front line fighters now are an order of magnitude better than anything flown by our adversaries, to include China's newest.

I'm afraid to comment on the political side of what is going on with personnel in the services. It certainly has impacted recruiting. In my experience, the warfighters figure out how to get the job done in spite of poor leadership.

 

[Astro14]

And yet, the F-15 doesn't have a kill ratio because you can't divide by zero. In combat, 104 kills and no losses. I think the F-15 marketing was appropriate to the very few Allies that were allowed to buy them at that time.
Antedotal incidents do not make a case unless there are a lot of them. And trust me, there weren't a lot of F-14s that could win a dogfight with an F-15. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be in a Strike Eagle attacking U.S. ships defended by Tomcats. That scenario would have results much more favorable to the F-14.

In my opinion, our front line fighters now are an order of magnitude better than anything flown by our adversaries, to include China's newest.

I'm afraid to comment on the political side of what is going on with personnel in the services. It certainly has impacted recruiting. In my experience, the warfighters figure out how to get the job done in spite of poor leadership.

Trust me, there were a lot of F-14s that consistently won against F-15s.

On paper, the Eagle had every advantage.

In the air, where the ability to extract all that performance from the airframe rested with the pilot, it was often a different story.

I’m not the only F-14 driver to have HUD footage of an Eagle framed under a gun pipper.

 

[thastinger]

I’m thinking of the funny triangular shaped vessel. They recently put the restrictions on because the hulls are cracking.

Agree that a DDG would suffice.

Yeah, the hulls on both classes of LCS are AL

 

[tc1446]

Taiwan is the center of the world's microchip industry. So everyone will hurt for the duration and for some time after.
Maybe it makes more economic sense to become independent of that source than defend it.

Read an article yesterday on internet that one major company was producing 90% of every chip used for vehicles, appliances, computers, etc. I think we'd be in a world of hurt very quickly if China took over and cut off production.

 

[wpod]

an interesting read from 11 years ago…
“how the u.s. lost the naval war of 2015”

How the United States Lost the Naval War of 2015

Years of strategic missteps in oceans policy, naval strategy and a force structure in decline set the stage for U.S. defeat at sea in 2015. After decades of dou

papers.ssrn.com

i’m a ww2 history bug. the usn’s experience in 1941-42 along the atlantic coast versus german u-boats and across the southern pacific versus japan, is sad and sobering reading. yeah we won, but our eventual victory was darn costly and resulted from an industrial base and national character that i cannot see today.

Our politicians allowed and planned the off shoring of our industries. Not a smart thing for a nation that is constantly at war. But they are good wars don't get me wrong.

 

[wpod]

We've slacked on technological advancements and long term self-sustainability in so long that I'm not surprised. Upper management is a joke too, as the military has turned into a tool for politicians and garbage career brass to use for their own benefit. Anybody remember @Astro14 story about the F14 pilot that bested the F15 but was forced to keep quiet because the F15 was marketed as nearly undefeatable and allies already put their order in for the F15s?

Was a Naval Aviator driving the F14?

 

[wpod]

Double click

 

[Pew]

Was a Naval Aviator driving the F14?

I believe so. @Astro14 posted a story about it in a thread a few years ago.

 

[Astro14]

Repost:

This is how Navy pilots are used to seeing Air Force airplanes. That's an F-14 HUD, with gun selected. Pipper on the F-15 pilot helmet. Kill range. There's no kill like a guns kill! https://theaviationgeekclub.com/no-...f-15s-for-two-times-in-the-same-mission/

Read the story. It's a classic.

The USAF wanted to show their generals, foreign military buyers, and defense officials that their new fighter, the F-15, was the best in the world. They invited the Navy to bring its new carrier based fighter, the F-14, as an adversary, to demonstrate how good the F-15 was against even the newest fighter in the USN.

The USAF test and evaluation folks set up the engagements to be medium range, to negate the advantage of the F-14s AIM-54 Phoenix missile (still the longest range air to air missile ever built), and picked an altitude where the F-15 outperformed the F-14.

Nobody told the Navy pilots that they were supposed to lose.... So, the single F-14 pilot beat the TWO F-15s. Soundly. With guns kills. In two repeat engagements. Humiliated by the back to back F-14 guns kill ( a complete and utter victory, like a first round knock out, or repeatedly lapping someone in a race, made even sweeter by the fact that it was one against two) of the F-15, the USAF test and evaluation folks were furious with the Navy pilot, one Joe "Hoser" Satrapa, from who's HUD that picture was taken....

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

IBTL

 

[bbhero]

Great true story Astro14... That's funny and awesome all at the same time.

Like a awesome saying I heard just a couple of months ago...

" Sometimes you get the bear... And sometimes the bear gets you."

One can think whatever they want to but when it comes to real world performance and circumstances... Things often times go very different than expected.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

In this mornings edition (Friday 21 October 2022) of the Bangkok times, USN Admiral Gilday stated to the Atlantic Council " and what we have seen over the past 20 years is that they(China) have delivered on every promise they've made earlier than they said they were going to deliver on".

Fascinating comments about China's resolve to deliver on what they say they will do, and seem to do it ahead of schedule.

Please leave politics or any other not permitted dialog from this thread- thanks in advance.

About the only thinking a culture of obedience is good for.

 

[bbhero]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BMW that is extremely well stated... And very insightful has well.

 

[Astro14]

Great true story Astro14... That's funny and awesome all at the same time.

Like a awesome saying I heard just a couple of months ago...

" Sometimes you get the bear... And sometimes the bear gets you."

One can think whatever they want to but when it comes to real world performance and circumstances... Things often times go very different than expected.

Won some. Lost some.

Great respect for the USAF and the Eagle. Wonderful jet. I’ve praised it in my F-14 thread.

 

[JHZR2]

We need war to get out of the current doodoo our economic system is in. Hence the vilification of Russia in the past 15 years and the vilification of China in the last 4 years.

Only the last 15 and four?

We here in the USA are still exceptionally innovative. There is a lot more to this subject than naval power, aircraft carriers or fighter jets/missiles.

But we outsource everything. Believe it or not, there are no camshaft blanks to be had right now. And that's not coming back. Battery power won't do the job, and by decree, engine production is grinding to a halt. Strange times we live in.

The CEOs that got their millions in bonuses from offshoring will be protected, and their kids will be less likely to be conscripted. Meanwhile the commoner idiot who thought they were getting a deal by buying third world items to get the “deal” will pay for it with their kids’ lives.

 

[PandaBear]

This - they have the worst demographic in history - due to the one child policy. There manufacturing labor costs have gone up 18X in 30 years. Manufacturers are leaving china for cheaper asian countries and even Mexico.

Not to mention they import half their food and 80% of their energy.

Biggest paper tiger in history.

In before the lock!

I'm trying not to be political on this one:

1) their aging population is not too far worse than developed nations like Japan or S Korea, and they have A LOT of poor peasants from rural area to continue their growth. They established a social security like system so they won't have the Europe style public healthcare that will drain the government down as population ages.

2) They export so much they are holding a LOT of USD and debt. If they don't buy something with this money what they are going to do other than letting it inflate away? They can't buy high tech stuff so they might as well buy food and energy if it is a good deal and what the US / Brazil sells with no export ban (this is according to Jiang Zhe Min, he complained that forcing them to import food but not technology products is not "fair").

IMO their biggest problem is their housing bubble. They are printing money using real estate to match the US, but that will destroy their own economy just like Japan did.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'm trying not to be political on this one:

1) their aging population is not too far worse than developed nations like Japan or S Korea, and they have A LOT of poor peasants from rural area to continue their growth. They established a social security like system so they won't have the Europe style public healthcare that will drain the government down as population ages.

2) They export so much they are holding a LOT of USD and debt. If they don't buy something with this money what they are going to do other than letting it inflate away? They can't buy high tech stuff so they might as well buy food and energy if it is a good deal and what the US / Brazil sells with no export ban (this is according to Jiang Zhe Min, he complained that forcing them to import food but not technology products is not "fair").

IMO their biggest problem is their housing bubble. They are printing money using real estate to match the US, but that will destroy their own economy just like Japan did.

The context, and big difference is Japan and South Korea are not threatening to invade a neighboring country, or are they trying to be a world superpower. The context of the thread was in China's ability to successfully invade Taiwan.

Your correct in that Japan and South Korea have horrible demographics as well, so we will see how that plays going forward also - however neither appears to be threatening anyone.

Switching the conversation to an economic standpoint Japan and South Korea are high tech leaders, they designed stuff and shipped elsewhere to build - so their demographics didn't hurt them as much - up till now at least.

China's economy is built on foreign investment and cheap labor, and there loosing both at the same time. They have been trying to expand their capability but so far haven't shown any ability other than to copy whatever someone else made. Possibly that changes but it hasn't yet.