Interesting 10R/10L Video from a Rebuilder (10 Speed Ford/GM)

[ctechbob]

Speed him up to at least 1.5x, otherwise it is a really slow video.

They seem to be more focused on the higher-torque models, but he says a few things here (regarding the 10R80 and 10L90) that I've been preaching for some time regarding the valve bodies.

Mainly, they are super sensitive to particles in the fluid. It's not that ULV isn't a good fluid, it's just more important that you keep it clean, and apparently the filters aren't enough.

Links below are at specific sections of the video:


Talking about solenoids.


Talking about Ford/GM 10R80/10L90 and more sticky valves


10 Speed Shift oddities (hint, it's a slow valve body)


Small particles in the valve body.

 

[nascarnation]

Nice find. On the Allison 1000/2000 series we use an external spin on filter (borrowed from the original Saturn MP6/MP7 automatic) for the feed to the controls. Obviously more costly but a robust design.

 

[ctechbob]

Nice find. On the Allison 1000/2000 series we use an external spin on filter (borrowed from the original Saturn MP6/MP7 automatic) for the feed to the controls. Obviously more costly but a robust design.

I always thought it kinda sucked that the trans, by design sheds material into the fluid, and then you pass that same fluid through semi delicate controls.

 

[D60]

So, essentially no "limp mode" in the Ford

This is another situation where I'm loathe to almost suggest gov't requirements, but limp mode should be almost mandatory. They mandate back up cameras, you'd think a true safety issue like this would be on "their" radar

 

[nascarnation]

I always thought it kinda sucked that the trans, by design sheds material into the fluid, and then you pass that same fluid through semi delicate controls.

In theory, the sump filter on the pump suction inlet should be effective for this , but I'm not sure what micron rating they use on these new transmissions.

Being a commercial rated unit, we went with a "belt and suspenders" approach on the Allison figuring the external spin on was far more likely to get changed as a maintenance item than the sump filter which required removing the pan.

 

[tcp71]

Sump suction filters are more or less rock catchers. Never seen one with an actual rating.

 

[ctechbob]

Sump suction filters are more or less rock catchers. Never seen one with an actual rating.

The 10R/10L's are a bit more than that. They're actually pretty nice, but apparently, still not enough.

I'd ripped the bottom off mine here, but lots of much finer material than you normally see in a trans filter:

Close up of the material

 

[Exhaustgases]

With all the aluminum junk parts in these I fully understand why they have so many problems with them.
I'm surprised they just don't try 3d printing all the parts from some kind of plastic.

 

[meep]

If I understand it, the 10r80 filters, or at least the earlier models, had two sections - fine particulate filtration and a super-fine particulate filtration. At operating temps, a flap blocked off the fine, forcing all fluid through super-fine. However, colder, thicker fluid could pass through the easier section. I seem to recall reading that the newer filters moved away from that complex mousetrap?

Most here know I have had remarkable success with LG red in my 10r80 (not driveable much without it). I’d figured the behavior in mine was VB related and something about LG red frees it up. The other thing I’d noticed is that it seemed almost imperceptibly improved when BMS was disabled and the vehicle was constantly running at 14V instead of 12.4. Perhaps the solenoids need that if there’s some debris slowing things down?

 

[ctechbob]

If I understand it, the 10r80 filters, or at least the earlier models, had two sections - fine particulate filtration and a super-fine particulate filtration. At operating temps, a flap blocked off the fine, forcing all fluid through super-fine. However, colder, thicker fluid could pass through the easier section. I seem to recall reading that the newer filters moved away from that complex mousetrap?

Most here know I have had remarkable success with LG red in my 10r80 (not driveable much without it). I’d figured the behavior in mine was VB related and something about LG red frees it up. The other thing I’d noticed is that it seemed almost imperceptibly improved when BMS was disabled and the vehicle was constantly running at 14V instead of 12.4. Perhaps the solenoids need that if there’s some debris slowing things down?

Maybe, but most of the ASS vehicles have an onboard power regulator that is supposed to provide a steady voltage to the more voltage sensitive circuits. Although that could easily be just the control units and not the actual control circuits.