Insane Veterinarian bills

Recently adopted a rescue. The dog was basically free. $35. I guess it covered the shots and worming. The dog was returned because it was a destructive chewer. Once a chewer, always a chewer. I was shocked at the federation, so to speak of insurance and and veterinary collusion going on. This as much as the chewing issue led to my returning the dog.
 
As for food, I've fed a natural diet for all my adult life to my animals. Buying kibble is as foreign a concept to me as having my oil changed at a quick lube.

Even ~20 years ago I did some calculations of it being comparable in cost to higher end pet food, but I appreciated knowing exactly what was in my meals, plus no filler.

Today, seeing what a bag of kibble goes for, I imagine it's actually less expensive but haven't done any recent calculations to back that up.

We use chicken or ground turkey, no-added-sugar applesauce, canned green beans or we cook carrots (canned carrots are inexplicably expensive), a little canned pumpkin (now is a great season to stock up!), jasmine rice, sweet potatoes and a couple supplements like Missing Link and Doggie Dailies.

You quickly learn the best places to buy what you need at the lowest price. Not surprisingly, WM tends to win for large packs of chicken, no-salt-added canned green beans and no-sugar-added applesauce.

There's always a crock pot going for chicken or carrots or a rice cooker or a cooker for sweet potatoes. It is true I don't factor in the cost of electricity for this, but honestly most slow cooker things don't pull much. And I don't include the cost of replacing these appliances as they die.

My dogs are always quite healthy with good coats, good eyes, minimal joint problems and tons of energy. And never overweight. It may not be the ONLY way, but I know from results it works for my pack and has for decades.
 
D60 said:
As for food, I've fed a natural diet for all my adult life to my animals. Buying kibble is as foreign a concept to me as having my oil changed at a quick lube.

Even ~20 years ago I did some calculations of it being comparable in cost to higher end pet food, but I appreciated knowing exactly what was in my meals, plus no filler.

Today, seeing what a bag of kibble goes for, I imagine it's actually less expensive but haven't done any recent calculations to back that up.

We use chicken or ground turkey, no-added-sugar applesauce, canned green beans or we cook carrots (canned carrots are inexplicably expensive), a little canned pumpkin (now is a great season to stock up!), jasmine rice, sweet potatoes and a couple supplements like Missing Link and Doggie Dailies.

You quickly learn the best places to buy what you need at the lowest price. Not surprisingly, WM tends to win for large packs of chicken, no-salt-added canned green beans and no-sugar-added applesauce.

There's always a crock pot going for chicken or carrots or a rice cooker or a cooker for sweet potatoes. It is true I don't factor in the cost of electricity for this, but honestly most slow cooker things don't pull much. And I don't include the cost of replacing these appliances as they die.

My dogs are always quite healthy with good coats, good eyes, minimal joint problems and tons of energy. And never overweight. It may not be the ONLY way, but I know from results it works for my pack and has for decades.
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We feed kibble, but you are not wrong. Americans have been conditioned to think that "people food" is poisonous to dogs but in most of the rest of the world, dogs have always been fed the things that their people are eating. Millions of dogs in Mexico live to ripe old ages on meat, tortillas, eggs, beans, etc. In the south, it was traditional to feed dogs cooked grits and offal (organ meats)... Same in South Africa where corn and the cheapest animal parts were normally fed to domesticated dogs.
 
Kibble is a toxic recipe and the resulting food after processing nowhere near represents the type of protein that is was before it was super heated, pressed, dried and turned into kibble.
For those who have the means, quality canned dog food rules, even middle range canned food which is still good like Purina Beyond (the only one I would buy from that company) The key is our dog never got the same brand name canned food more than 2 times a week. We used a variety of different companies to constantly rotate different dinners from different companies on different nights. Giving your dog the same brand everyday is no different than eating the same fast food company every day of the week your entire life.

If you do feed kibble, same deal, no reason to feed the same brand everyday of the week, alternate between a few brands.

. We also topped with rotisserie chicken bought from Costco and Sam's Club, we would buy two or 3 at a time, peel it off the chicken and chop it up, freeze in individual freezer bags and take them out as needed to top the canned dog food every night with fresh chicken, sometimes steak or chop meat and a little bit of chopped up Apple. If we ever ran out of that, we had canned wild Salmon and canned mackerel bought from the people food isle in the supermarket until we had more chicken.

Whole Dog Journal is an excellent source of dog nutrition. Hands down the best unbiased source. In my personal opinion it is the go to source (bible) regarding dog nutrition
www.whole-dog-journal.com

Home - Whole Dog Journal | Dog Health, Care, and Training

Whole Dog Journal offers well-researched, in-depth articles about all aspects of dog care and training.
www.whole-dog-journal.com www.whole-dog-journal.com



If you dont want to subscribe above this free site is ok for at least learning the basics.
www.dogfoodadvisor.com

View All Wet Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor

Want to know the rating of your favorite wet dog food? See the Dog Food Advisor comprehensive list from A-Z.
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The above link is just for canned food, here is the main site page.
www.dogfoodadvisor.com

Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor

The Dog Food Advisor's unbiased dog food reviews and ratings searchable by brand or star rating. Find the best dry, canned or raw food for your dog.
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ripcord said:
We feed kibble, but you are not wrong. Americans have been conditioned to think that "people food" is poisonous to dogs but in most of the rest of the world, dogs have always been fed the things that their people are eating. Millions of dogs in Mexico live to ripe old ages on meat, tortillas, eggs, beans, etc. In the south, it was traditional to feed dogs cooked grits and offal (organ meats)... Same in South Africa where corn and the cheapest animal parts were normally fed to domesticated dogs.
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I think it's the difference of meat processing before 1) we get it from the supermarket (processed vs crude) and 2) any seasonings.
 
I will say in defense of the Vet I know that he does have the latest in equipment and training to treat animals as best as he and his staff can. Some of the machines are really no different than those used on humans, and they're just as expensive to buy. He truly does love animals, and has dogs and horses of his own.

Have Vet bills gone up? Absolutely. Some is due to the rampant inflation across the board we've experienced for the last almost 4 years. Some of it is due to their better abilities to diagnose and treat ailments. Lots of people will spare no expense for their pets welfare, and some Vets play that angle up, by saying for example: "You want the best care that Fluffy can get, don't you?"... I've heard from pet owners who have gone to the Vet I know, that he or his staff didn't push the hard up-sell, they just gave the options that were available.

Having recent experience with the up-sell to play on your emotions, that tactic is a mainstay in funeral planning.
 
Probably some of it is due to lawsuits against the vet. I wonder if any offer a lower fee for signed promise not to sue?
We have no pets so I just don't understand.
 
D60 said:
As for food, I've fed a natural diet for all my adult life to my animals. Buying kibble is as foreign a concept to me as having my oil changed at a quick lube.

Even ~20 years ago I did some calculations of it being comparable in cost to higher end pet food, but I appreciated knowing exactly what was in my meals, plus no filler.

Today, seeing what a bag of kibble goes for, I imagine it's actually less expensive but haven't done any recent calculations to back that up.

We use chicken or ground turkey, no-added-sugar applesauce, canned green beans or we cook carrots (canned carrots are inexplicably expensive), a little canned pumpkin (now is a great season to stock up!), jasmine rice, sweet potatoes and a couple supplements like Missing Link and Doggie Dailies.

You quickly learn the best places to buy what you need at the lowest price. Not surprisingly, WM tends to win for large packs of chicken, no-salt-added canned green beans and no-sugar-added applesauce.

There's always a crock pot going for chicken or carrots or a rice cooker or a cooker for sweet potatoes. It is true I don't factor in the cost of electricity for this, but honestly most slow cooker things don't pull much. And I don't include the cost of replacing these appliances as they die.

My dogs are always quite healthy with good coats, good eyes, minimal joint problems and tons of energy. And never overweight. It may not be the ONLY way, but I know from results it works for my pack and has for decades.
Click to expand...
I don't know what degree of inbreeding needs to be done for each breed? Or the amount of selecting for the "look" traits and not the "health" traits? I guess there must be genetic testing available to track this?

Our Marremas get the 2nd cheapest kibble, live in the pasture, see the vet as rarely as possible and live a good long happy healthy life, averaging 14 so far. No kennel club breeding, no fancy food, just doing what they were selected to do over a few millennia by some Sheppard's in the mountains of Italy. Total cost for one of dogs including buying it, food, vaccines, for 14 years might be $7-8k with the odd extra vet visit?

Anyways, they work very well for us, and are very cute as puppies, but you need a big rural property, don't mind barking, and some livestock for them to guard, and do a bit(or a lot) of training when they are young so they learn not to play with their flock.
 
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D60 said:
You quickly learn the best places to buy what you need at the lowest price.
Click to expand...
True that / ;)

chicken.webp
 
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BrianF said:
Small animal is crazy expensive. Large animal like cattle and horses are pricey but much better bang for your buck.

We do and have always done a pile of business with vets. In fact we are great family friends with three local ones. Yes, they can make good money but they earn it. First off, the cost of a building, specialized equipment, staff, vehicles, the crazy on call hours, dealing people (their stories are almost as crazy as my people stories) all coupled in with the cost of the education. They don't make enough for what I see them do.

Of our three vet friends, each does a pile of on call and each suffers from serious burnout. I know first hand the damage that on call/call outs can cause so it's hard to see others suffer through.
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Sorry $5,000 for a couple of X-rays and some lab work and a nights stay. Ripped off is how I felt, NO wonder he has a what........$10,000,000-$15,000,000 building while keeping a $2,000,000 building for storage.
 
You’d think vets make lots of money however they don’t. I know two and the excessive schooling leads to relatively humble homes as they also have to keep up a vet practice etc.
 
2strokeNorthstar said:
100% greed. We are lucky to live near Mexico where vets are much more reasonable. People even have transportation services to take your animal from the US to Tijuana for treatment. I got flea medicine from Petco in Mexico for $40 without a prescription. They wanted $90 in the US plus a vet visit for a prescription. Exact same medicine.
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Mine comes from New Zealand, via Sierra Pet Meds. Roughly 20% of the US list price.
 
The humane societys near me offer reduced rate vaccination and other basic care at regular clinics. The regular vets we use volunteer for this, leaving those that come a bill that is pretty minimal.
 
andrew_j said:
You’d think vets make lots of money however they don’t. I know two and the excessive schooling leads to relatively humble homes as they also have to keep up a vet practice etc.
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This is an emergency vet, so they gouge you for the service, totally different then a suburban vet or country vet with a small practice. It has to now be one the biggest E care vets in Minneapolis/st Paul with that new building and a spare.
 
ripcord said:
We feed kibble, but you are not wrong. Americans have been conditioned to think that "people food" is poisonous to dogs but in most of the rest of the world, dogs have always been fed the things that their people are eating. Millions of dogs in Mexico live to ripe old ages on meat, tortillas, eggs, beans, etc. In the south, it was traditional to feed dogs cooked grits and offal (organ meats)... Same in South Africa where corn and the cheapest animal parts were normally fed to domesticated dogs.
Click to expand...
There's nothing inherently wrong with kibble per se as it can pack a huge nutritional punch and is incredibly convenient. As for human prepared food if you've ever seen stray dogs in third world countries they all don't look that great because they're usually eating food scraps throw off in the garbage. Same with feral cats. Feral cats tend to look a little better than the dogs because the cats are more likely to occasionally consume a rodent or bird.

Obviously kibble has some issues like sufficient level of animal protein. Protein is expensive so the more animal protein the higher the price. Overfeeding and type binder used. There must be a binder to hold everything together. The less binder the easier it is to overfeed because the total volume fed decreases by a lot. For example there's cat food labeled under Young Again and it is possibly the highest protein kibble sold for cats. The feeding instructions for one of my cats is .5 cups/day which is around 50 percent less than what's recommended by typical kibble sold for cats. It's basically animal protein with guar gum binder. My cats couldn't handle it because they would over eat.

Wet food is obviously great but you're starting to pay for water so you have to feed a lot more in terms of volume compared to kibble.
Raw food is even worse because the food is mostly water. I used to feed it as a snack.

When our Maine Coons were kittens I could feed them a lot of wet food because at the time cat food was also sold as their high protein dog food. This meant I could feed them via 13oz cans of dog food rather than 2 cans of 5oz wet cat food. I saved a lot of $$ that way being that my boys were eventually going to be 20 and 27 lbs.

 
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