Not if they used Russian miniturised vaccuum tubes... We have a Civic 2.0 (2003) and a Jazz 2006 (Fit in Japan) and although I prefer the Civic for its relative poke, the Jazz is very pleasant for town use, and pretty good on the M-ways in the UK. Handling excellent, quieter than the Toyota thing we had previously as a runaround, good turning circle, fairly roomy, solid build, easy manual tranny, good ergonomics with clear dials that dim when the lights are used, and 45 Imperial mpg overall. It has its uses, but wouldn't suit all users. Drive it before you diss it.
Impressed with the upcoming Honda Fit
- Thread starter vad
- Start date
- Status
JHZR2
Staff member
Brian... would rather be hit in the saab than the fit...
No car really approaches the safety engineerng that the saab has... maybe volvo and some daimler stuff... sorry honda.
All the same, regardless of what anyone drives, lets hope that NOBODY gets hit... and down with the insurance companies anyway... Im getting screwed by progressive right now... jerks.
JMH
No car really approaches the safety engineerng that the saab has... maybe volvo and some daimler stuff... sorry honda.
All the same, regardless of what anyone drives, lets hope that NOBODY gets hit... and down with the insurance companies anyway... Im getting screwed by progressive right now... jerks.
JMH
The Accord gets 5 star ratings from the NHTSA, which is comparable to Saabs line of autos. Honda's cars are very safe to be in if you happen to get in an accident.
JHZR2
Staff member
yeah but did it ever break records in testing the way that saab did??? There are lots of 5 star vehicles out there... not saying that theyre bad, Im just saying that the saab is better... sorry if this offends you.
Not that the newly freshened accord is a bad car in any way... in fact, the 2.4l MT version would be on my short list for an economical car... even over the fit!
JMH
Not that the newly freshened accord is a bad car in any way... in fact, the 2.4l MT version would be on my short list for an economical car... even over the fit!
JMH
A 5 star rating is a 5 star rating. There isn't a 6 star category- the last time I checked. Sorry, but I would rather own an Accord over a Saab any given day, and according to Accord's sales figures vs. Saab's, so would the majority of the buying public. Sorry if this offends you...
JHZR2
Staff member
'stars' are a way of lumping data together for people who cant analyze better themselves... doesnt mean that all 'n star' winners are equivalent. Anyway, last I checked, most of the buying public is a bunch of idiots... Im not saying you are, but look at any metric... look at what people base their choices on... consumer reports?!?!?
Im not saying you are one... but as a whole, the consumer public falls under this category: idiot... sorry if this offends you.
JMH
P.S. Look at the demographics... most people buy hondas as appliances with no major analysis performed... Most people who buy saabs are educated, technical type people who make some sort of third-party analysis before purchase.
P.P.S. The accord is a great car, I never said that it wasnt... but dont bash an excellent car like the 9-3, just because it isnt a honda... Honda might make world class top notch cars, but other manufacturers do too... and some might just possibly out engineer Honda to. Heck, Ill put my saab, or even my 83 MB (starting with 228k) up against a new accord and we shall see which one lasts longer... Im not scared.
[ April 22, 2006, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
Im not saying you are one... but as a whole, the consumer public falls under this category: idiot... sorry if this offends you.
JMH
P.S. Look at the demographics... most people buy hondas as appliances with no major analysis performed... Most people who buy saabs are educated, technical type people who make some sort of third-party analysis before purchase.
P.P.S. The accord is a great car, I never said that it wasnt... but dont bash an excellent car like the 9-3, just because it isnt a honda... Honda might make world class top notch cars, but other manufacturers do too... and some might just possibly out engineer Honda to. Heck, Ill put my saab, or even my 83 MB (starting with 228k) up against a new accord and we shall see which one lasts longer... Im not scared.
[ April 22, 2006, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
The buying public knows a good value when they see one, they aren't "idiots" as you put it. Making statements like that on here won't win you any popularity points.
To say Saab's are purchased by educated people is like saying Hummers are purchased by military outdoor types...right (Soccer Mom Urban Assault favorite). I'll try to remember that educated people buy Saabs as I see the 20th Saab 9-3 of the day rolling down my street slammed to the ground with spinners on it and 20 speakers thumping. Get over the whole Saab ownership=sophistication ego trip you are on. Any "idiot" with a decent credit score can get behind the wheel of one. The thing that eats you is that more "idiots" prefer to get behind the wheel of Honda products. Later-
Where does one need to go on the "east coast" to see such a sight?
Good 'ol southern Connecticut! It's like a bad MTV rap video in certain parts
Not too many of those "educated" "technical" peoples up tis way (myself included). um just anoter "idiot" in a Honda. Wis I cood afford a Saab
I think that says more about southern Connecticut than it does about Saab...
Work any job dealing with the general public and you'll figure out pretty quickly that isn't true.
I think it says that Saab owners need to get off of their soap boxes...
Some of them, anyway.
This thread has turned into a ******* contest almost as bad as a Ford vs. Chevy one.
JHZR2
Staff member
Here is the problem... same as it ever is. There is always a huge amount of animosity on part of Japanese car owners whenever the supposed 'dominance' is questioned. Lets think back... the US car quality thread... The many threads on the value of Korean cars, etc. The threads on longevity of US cars compared to Japanese. Whether its American car owners vs. japanese car owners, Korean car owners vs. Japanese car owners, or, say, in this current situation, Saab owners vs. Honda owners... there is always some issue on part of the owners of the japanese marques. Some fear or similar issue that makes them defend their cars no matter what, even if others' data has some truth to it. These last few posts are case-in-point.
Id think that considering the way that car sales are, the Japanese car owners would sit back happy, realizing that the buying public has obviously spoken and desires the Japanese cars over the US and other makes. But yet there is always some need to defend the 'superiority' of the Japanese models when anyone else dare suggest that there is some hint of good engineering or superior design aspect to their non-Japanese car. I dont know.. I cant figure it out... Is it that Japanese car owners have to justify the premiums that they have paid for their vehiles compared to other similar (but apparently inferior) alternates?
Maybe Im the idiot for making a purchase based upon real, thurough anaysis, well aside from the 'data' that consumer reports spits out.
Ill be plan and honest... why did I buy the 9-3? I could have bought any car I wanted.. I looked at Acuras, I looked at Hondas...
I bought the 9-3 because it was rated at 34 MPG on the highway, came standard with 175 hp and 195 lb-ft of torque, just off of fast idle... and I got it brand new, with 8 miles on the odometer, for $23k. To me this was a good deal, especially
considering the 'deals' that honda and acura offered.
It was icing on the cake when the 9-3 got the first ever double best safety pick. It was moreso when it made new safety records in the euro tests.
And even more when the TUV, a real reliability and defect measurement analysis, not a CR type non scientific, opinion poll, rated 2-3 year old 9-3s as having less defects and problems than even honda accords... OK, granted it was really the narrow body accord, aka the acura tsx, but for most people posting on here or elsewhere, the acura product would be considered the superior
and higher quality product to the standard accord anyhow. And the public's opinion is impotant, right?
Ive averaged decently over 34 MPG with the car in my 20k milesof ownership, beating EPA estimates, in mixed driving, mostly highway with a lot of traffic. Not so bad, eh? I will admit that I had one incident: the parking brake got stuck, but it was a dealer fix that took no more than 25
minutes... it was a well known issue with a quick repair and was all done. Saab dealer service (for free no less) has been EXCELLENT, and even if its not free, their prices (my family owns 9 cars among 5 people and I work on them all, so Im in touch with prices) are quite reasonable in terms of the work to be done.
But of course, I best not suggest that the 9-3 is in any way superior or even equivalent in design engineerng, or existance to the Honda product, because Id just be wasting my breath...
After all, most saab owners are ghetto-fablous, right? Like there arent a million f@rt-can big-wing clear-taillaight civics and accords in every town across the country (Im in the deep south right now, and theyre even down here). ooPS, I forgot. Yep, the typical honda buyer is oh so educated and enlightened... they do so much more than look ath the little red dots in consumr reports, or measure how many 'R' 'SI' 'NOS' and similar stickers fit on their door and windshield.
Im not in a ****ing match with anyone. But ill be ****ed if I cant suggest that something in another brand might actually be superior in some way without getting slapped aside the head because I dare challenge the supposed dominance of the japanese product.
I never said that honda builds crap, I never said that the accord wasnt an excellent car... heck, if theyd have given me a deal on a 4 cyl MT accord, I might never had even stepped into saab dealer. But Im glad that I did!
Sorry if you dont like that I dare say that the saab might be better in this or that than the accord... Are you having that hard a time justifying your purchase??? Or is it that you just cant stand it that something might be as good or better than the accord. If the accord got 4 stars in safety and the saab got 5, would the saab still be 'inferior' to the accord? I suppose the accord would still have better safety engineering, even with one less star.
Sheesh, Japanese vs. the world, ford vs. chevy, etc., etc.: cant someone have a point of view, backed by real third party data, and have that be accepted? And those who have an opposing view be proud of what they have and not need to attack or badmouth the newcomer? the accord is a great car, Ill be the first to say it... but dont discount what I have to say about the saab because youre not willing to accept it. It doesnt make it any less reality.
So, back on topic: The only car in this thread that I might badmouth is the FIT... Frankly, for what it is, its fuel economy stinks. And in reality its a vehicle designed years ago, just hitting our shores. SO it already got its QC and
problems squared away, and so isnt anything all that innoative or special. For $15k Id rather buy a stripped accord.
JMH
[ April 22, 2006, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
Id think that considering the way that car sales are, the Japanese car owners would sit back happy, realizing that the buying public has obviously spoken and desires the Japanese cars over the US and other makes. But yet there is always some need to defend the 'superiority' of the Japanese models when anyone else dare suggest that there is some hint of good engineering or superior design aspect to their non-Japanese car. I dont know.. I cant figure it out... Is it that Japanese car owners have to justify the premiums that they have paid for their vehiles compared to other similar (but apparently inferior) alternates?
Maybe Im the idiot for making a purchase based upon real, thurough anaysis, well aside from the 'data' that consumer reports spits out.
Ill be plan and honest... why did I buy the 9-3? I could have bought any car I wanted.. I looked at Acuras, I looked at Hondas...
I bought the 9-3 because it was rated at 34 MPG on the highway, came standard with 175 hp and 195 lb-ft of torque, just off of fast idle... and I got it brand new, with 8 miles on the odometer, for $23k. To me this was a good deal, especially
considering the 'deals' that honda and acura offered.
It was icing on the cake when the 9-3 got the first ever double best safety pick. It was moreso when it made new safety records in the euro tests.
And even more when the TUV, a real reliability and defect measurement analysis, not a CR type non scientific, opinion poll, rated 2-3 year old 9-3s as having less defects and problems than even honda accords... OK, granted it was really the narrow body accord, aka the acura tsx, but for most people posting on here or elsewhere, the acura product would be considered the superior
and higher quality product to the standard accord anyhow. And the public's opinion is impotant, right?
Ive averaged decently over 34 MPG with the car in my 20k milesof ownership, beating EPA estimates, in mixed driving, mostly highway with a lot of traffic. Not so bad, eh? I will admit that I had one incident: the parking brake got stuck, but it was a dealer fix that took no more than 25
minutes... it was a well known issue with a quick repair and was all done. Saab dealer service (for free no less) has been EXCELLENT, and even if its not free, their prices (my family owns 9 cars among 5 people and I work on them all, so Im in touch with prices) are quite reasonable in terms of the work to be done.
But of course, I best not suggest that the 9-3 is in any way superior or even equivalent in design engineerng, or existance to the Honda product, because Id just be wasting my breath...
After all, most saab owners are ghetto-fablous, right? Like there arent a million f@rt-can big-wing clear-taillaight civics and accords in every town across the country (Im in the deep south right now, and theyre even down here). ooPS, I forgot. Yep, the typical honda buyer is oh so educated and enlightened... they do so much more than look ath the little red dots in consumr reports, or measure how many 'R' 'SI' 'NOS' and similar stickers fit on their door and windshield.
Im not in a ****ing match with anyone. But ill be ****ed if I cant suggest that something in another brand might actually be superior in some way without getting slapped aside the head because I dare challenge the supposed dominance of the japanese product.
I never said that honda builds crap, I never said that the accord wasnt an excellent car... heck, if theyd have given me a deal on a 4 cyl MT accord, I might never had even stepped into saab dealer. But Im glad that I did!
Sorry if you dont like that I dare say that the saab might be better in this or that than the accord... Are you having that hard a time justifying your purchase??? Or is it that you just cant stand it that something might be as good or better than the accord. If the accord got 4 stars in safety and the saab got 5, would the saab still be 'inferior' to the accord? I suppose the accord would still have better safety engineering, even with one less star.
Sheesh, Japanese vs. the world, ford vs. chevy, etc., etc.: cant someone have a point of view, backed by real third party data, and have that be accepted? And those who have an opposing view be proud of what they have and not need to attack or badmouth the newcomer? the accord is a great car, Ill be the first to say it... but dont discount what I have to say about the saab because youre not willing to accept it. It doesnt make it any less reality.
So, back on topic: The only car in this thread that I might badmouth is the FIT... Frankly, for what it is, its fuel economy stinks. And in reality its a vehicle designed years ago, just hitting our shores. SO it already got its QC and
problems squared away, and so isnt anything all that innoative or special. For $15k Id rather buy a stripped accord.
JMH
[ April 22, 2006, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
JHZR2
Staff member
To the first paragraph: maybe you should revsit the pondering on why customer service in auto sores is so poor... And think about who the serivce people are and who the consumer are... the typical buying public... many a smart forum member over there concluded that the typical worker and consumer isnt all that great or smart.quote:
Originally posted by Jeepster_nut:
The buying public knows a good value when they see one, they aren't "idiots" as you put it. Making statements like that on here won't win you any popularity points.The buying public knows that it doesn't have to pay over inflated pricing for a safe, reliable automobile.
The thing that eats you is that more "idiots" prefer to get behind the wheel of Honda products. Later-
And to the second paragraph... it doesnt eat me up at all... I could really care less. Resale value has absolutely no influence on me, as we use our vehicles until we have extracted sufficient value from it in terms of utility... and these vehicles get driven into the ground... so i could really give one bit of care as to how well it holds its value (the most important reason why folks are concerned with what the buying publi really wants to buy), and so long as there are cars that appeal to me available, I could care less what makers or anything else exist. Let people buy accords, camrys, impalas, dodges, buicks, suzukis, saabs, etc., etc. nothing wrong with that.
JMH
Lets get back on the Fit...
How come they only come in Red or Blue?
The ones I looked at yesterday did not have the fit and finish of typical Honda.
6 of them, 3 reds and 3 blues.
I do not like the Mirrors (or the side window) set up on it or the 2006 Civic.
Put the mirrors in the front of the windows like most every other car.
More gaskets and places for wind noise or water to get in...
Have to buy the sport model to get Cruise..
A/C is standard.
I like the Speedo and tach MUCH better than the Civics. Accord is better than both in that area..
For it's size, it should get alot better MPG. (The Civic is 200 lbs heavier, 31 HP more and gets better MPG???)
Nice form factor (I like Wagons, wish Toyota and Honda would make REAL ones like you can get out of USA..)
The seats (all of them) do anything. Flip this way and that way. Pretty cool!
Alot of plastic and wish it looked better (like the Accord..) (a little cheap looking)
Engine is packed in there. They have the battery close to the firewall.
I could not find the Oil Filter.
Sales "person" did not know..
Neither did the Service "advisor"....
And the dealer I went to is not even allowing a test drive unless your ready to fill out paperwork. And price is sticker plus $500.
Asked how the Civics were selling, he said they are priced to high... Sold alot when they first came out and now steady.. (as he is adding $500 on a Fit)
Alot of folks are going to the 4 cyl Accord since they are close to price to a Civic.. If you lease a car, the Accord is $10 more per month for 39 months.
There was not alot of people. One thing that BLEW me away is that Honda is slowing the production of the Accord Hybrid since its not selling very well.
(thought everyone wants a Hybrid?)
The dealer I was at has not sold a single one. They have sold maybe 10 Civic Hybrids.
Ok, now to the topic discussed, I like my Toyota and Chevy... And my Uncles PT Cruiser and Dads Vue is nice...
Guess I don't fit into any group...
Take care, bill
How come they only come in Red or Blue?
The ones I looked at yesterday did not have the fit and finish of typical Honda.
6 of them, 3 reds and 3 blues.
I do not like the Mirrors (or the side window) set up on it or the 2006 Civic.
Put the mirrors in the front of the windows like most every other car.
More gaskets and places for wind noise or water to get in...
Have to buy the sport model to get Cruise..
A/C is standard.
I like the Speedo and tach MUCH better than the Civics. Accord is better than both in that area..
For it's size, it should get alot better MPG. (The Civic is 200 lbs heavier, 31 HP more and gets better MPG???)
Nice form factor (I like Wagons, wish Toyota and Honda would make REAL ones like you can get out of USA..)
The seats (all of them) do anything. Flip this way and that way. Pretty cool!
Alot of plastic and wish it looked better (like the Accord..) (a little cheap looking)
Engine is packed in there. They have the battery close to the firewall.
I could not find the Oil Filter.
Sales "person" did not know..
Neither did the Service "advisor"....
And the dealer I went to is not even allowing a test drive unless your ready to fill out paperwork. And price is sticker plus $500.
Asked how the Civics were selling, he said they are priced to high... Sold alot when they first came out and now steady.. (as he is adding $500 on a Fit)
Alot of folks are going to the 4 cyl Accord since they are close to price to a Civic.. If you lease a car, the Accord is $10 more per month for 39 months.
There was not alot of people. One thing that BLEW me away is that Honda is slowing the production of the Accord Hybrid since its not selling very well.
(thought everyone wants a Hybrid?)
The dealer I was at has not sold a single one. They have sold maybe 10 Civic Hybrids.
Ok, now to the topic discussed, I like my Toyota and Chevy... And my Uncles PT Cruiser and Dads Vue is nice...
Guess I don't fit into any group...
Take care, bill
JHZR2
Staff member
Speaking of the accord hybrid, why couldnt they make one that had 4 cylinder levels of power??? I could really care less about having two-hundred something hp, and zero to 60 in under 6 seconds or whatever the claim was.
If they derated a 4cyl engine, and made about 160 hp in an accord hybrid, it would do great...
I dont see why they didnt do that.
As for the fit, I can understand quality not being up to snuff if theyre starting a new production line and its getting its issues ironed out... however, no cruise without a "sport" package???
Hate to say it, but I think this may be a bit more of a flop than they expect.
The one thing it has going for it is that IMO it looks better than the toyota.
JMH
If they derated a 4cyl engine, and made about 160 hp in an accord hybrid, it would do great...
I dont see why they didnt do that.
As for the fit, I can understand quality not being up to snuff if theyre starting a new production line and its getting its issues ironed out... however, no cruise without a "sport" package???
Hate to say it, but I think this may be a bit more of a flop than they expect.
The one thing it has going for it is that IMO it looks better than the toyota.
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
yay north NJ!!!!
Welcome to the forum!!!
I think I mentioned someplace a few pages back that it doeslook like the suzuki... what is the EPA MPG rating for non-awd versions???
In looking for an economy car, I wouldnt want AWD, personally... but the suzuki would be a great alternative, IMO.
One thing to note... in the severe service of the USVI, suzuki and toyota are the major foreign players... very few hondas are ever seen... for a reason.
JMH
Welcome to the forum!!!
I think I mentioned someplace a few pages back that it doeslook like the suzuki... what is the EPA MPG rating for non-awd versions???
In looking for an economy car, I wouldnt want AWD, personally... but the suzuki would be a great alternative, IMO.
One thing to note... in the severe service of the USVI, suzuki and toyota are the major foreign players... very few hondas are ever seen... for a reason.
JMH
- Status
Similar threads
