I'm getting disgusted!

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k1rod

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I used to know that if I put Mobil Delvac 1 in my Duramax I was getting a great Group IV PAO based synthetic. Later when Delvac 1 became very difficult to find, I thought Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck was the same. It's not. Now I don't know what to buy.

I want to buy a Diesel 5W-40 true Group IV PAO synthetic with a good additive package. Mobil refuses to even tell me what category their synths fall into now and their wear numbers as shown on this site aren't too impressive either so screw them.

I look to Amsoil and it seems they are starting to use the same nebulous language, "blends" and all that nobody can nail down, and at the same time I am reading that they are buying their basestocks from the lowest bidder. This in addition to a call I put in to Mercedes Benz asking why they don't recommend Amsoil and their response that the formulation was too inconsistent. I don't know what that means but I guessed that it means that the formulation changes as a function of the price of the ingredients. (this is just my supposition)

Royal Purple seemed interesting but there are too few people using it and too little data for me to get a handle on.

And then there is Redline which is a group V basestock which is not a durable (long OCI) as a group IV and I really don't want that.

What I really want is what old Delvac 1 was. I want a 5W-40 Group IV PAO basestock synthetic oil.

Does it still exist?

Is there anywhere I can buy an oil like this anymore?
 
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With all due respect what is the big whoop about PAO? GPIII base oil does as good as PAO untill the extremes are reached.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
With all due respect what is the big whoop about PAO? GPIII base oil does as good as PAO untill the extremes are reached.


+1 do some research on PAO. It IS NOT the holy grail of lubricants. It is great when temps are very low, but it is a poor "conductor" of additives, not very good with seals, that is why many oils are blended because it gives the best of all worlds. What works best is an oil that gives you good results in your vehicle. A used oil analysis will help you find that oil but most of the major HDEO's are very good. You need to get out of the hype that once was PAO, and come back to blended syns. that capture the best of "all worlds".
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
With all due respect what is the big whoop about PAO? GPIII base oil does as good as PAO untill the extremes are reached.


Not really. A group III requires the addition of more long chain polymers VI improvers which are very shear unstable. Long chain polymers break down progressively even in daily drivers under ideal conditions. You cannot get the extremely long OCI with a Group III that you can with a group IV.
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: Steve S
With all due respect what is the big whoop about PAO? GPIII base oil does as good as PAO untill the extremes are reached.


+1 do some research on PAO. It IS NOT the holy grail of lubricants. It is great when temps are very low, but it is a poor "conductor" of additives, not very good with seals, that is why many oils are blended because it gives the best of all worlds. What works best is an oil that gives you good results in your vehicle. A used oil analysis will help you find that oil but most of the major HDEO's are very good. You need to get out of the hype that once was PAO, and come back to blended syns. that capture the best of "all worlds".



These are great points. PAO's are tough on seals, and almost always require a mineral oil to support the additive package. But PAO's are inherently anti Newtonian so they don't require large amounts of very unstable long chain polymer VI improvers to achieve the viscosity range. VI improver breakdown is like letting free radicals run amok in your body. It's very bad. PAO's definately have their downside but they are also the most stable formulations out there.
 
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
What about T6?


T6 is a group III oil.

T6 is a group III+ oil (VHVI). Do some research on this to find out how close it is in performance characteristics to group IV.

Not to mention that T6 turns in impressive used oil analysis, even in very demanding environments (turbocharged gasoline, turbocharged diesel, wet clutch shared sump, etc.).
 
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Later when Delvac 1 became very difficult to find, ...

Does it still exist?

Is there anywhere I can buy an oil like this anymore?

You can still get it online, though it's a little pricey. I pay about the same at Wal-Mart for 1 gallon of Delvac 1300 Super as what 1 qt of Delvac 1 ESP is selling for online.

Since you live in Arizona, I don't know why you need a 5W-40 oil. This viscosity grade is primarily intended for colder climates. Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 will probably provide even better protection in your climate than the synthetic Delvac 1 5W-40, as long as you don't have very long oil-change intervals. Synthetic 5W-40 HDEOs have lower HTHS viscosities than their conventional 15w40 HDEO counterparts. In the 120 F weather of Arizona, I would go with a high-HTHS-viscosity HDEO -- therefore with a conventional 15w40, not a synthetic 5W-40. Besides, the base-stock and additive-package quality of Delvac 1300 Super is hard to beat.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: k1rod
... I want to buy a Diesel 5W-40 true Group IV PAO synthetic with a good additive package. ..


There are still PAO products out there, but you seem to have some really particular tastes. You'll have to go find the Delvac 1, since you seem to have convinced yourself it's the only thing that will fit your wants.

Notice, I said "wants"; not "needs".

We know nothing about your useage, environment, OCIs or such. Kind of hard for us to make reasonable suggestions not knowing these things.

I suspect you're convinced that only a PAO will save your precious Dmax. In fact, not just PAO, but only one brand/grade.

My Dmax gets a steady diet of whatever dino HDEO is on sale, and I sleep well at night. After all, it is one of the easiest on oil of all the light-duty diesels out there. There are, by now, thousands of used oil analysis to prove this. It runs just fine, with no problems affecting wear or longevity, on conventional oils. Even in extreme environments. Even with heavy towing.

You may or may not find what you "want", but what you "need" is likely available at any auto-parts house or mass distribution center near you.

21 posts since 2006? That's a lot of lurking and a whole lot of restraint. I presume you read a great deal and don't post much? If so, then you should not be "disgusted" by the information you do and do not get from lubricant marketing teams and FAQ pages. Also, I would think that you'd understand by now that any lubricant you buy is a "blend" of base stock and additive package. There is no "pure" PAO you're going to find that you can stick directly into the crankcase. So, any product you by is a compromise to some degree. Further, you should recognize that base stock is not the only means to measure the abilities of a lubricant. PDS files will give you predictions based upon inputs, but used oil analysis will tell you how things actually perform.

If you "want" to use only one brand/grade of PAO, then that is fine by me. But you haven't convinced me that you "need" it. And don't become "disgusted" when you can't seem to find a lube that fit's your "wants" when there is a mirade of products available out there that all perform admirably. If you're THAT upset about it, start your own lubricant company and fill that niche you perceive to be void.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: k1rod
...You cannot get the extremely long OCI with a Group III that you can with a group IV.


How long of a drain interval do you run?
 
Have you considered Schaeffer Supreme 9000?
It's a fully-synthetic 5w40.
Quite a lot more stout than Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck.
 
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: Steve S
With all due respect what is the big whoop about PAO? GPIII base oil does as good as PAO untill the extremes are reached.


+1 do some research on PAO. It IS NOT the holy grail of lubricants. It is great when temps are very low, but it is a poor "conductor" of additives, not very good with seals, that is why many oils are blended because it gives the best of all worlds. What works best is an oil that gives you good results in your vehicle. A used oil analysis will help you find that oil but most of the major HDEO's are very good. You need to get out of the hype that once was PAO, and come back to blended syns. that capture the best of "all worlds".



These are great points. PAO's are tough on seals, and almost always require a mineral oil to support the additive package. But PAO's are inherently anti Newtonian so they don't require large amounts of very unstable long chain polymer VI improvers to achieve the viscosity range. VI improver breakdown is like letting free radicals run amok in your body. It's very bad. PAO's definately have their downside but they are also the most stable formulations out there.
Except POA 5W-40 oils have the same amount of visc improvers as conventional 15w40 oils. PAOS are not tough on seals. All the info you read has to be put into context of a finished oil.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: k1rod
... I want to buy a Diesel 5W-40 true Group IV PAO synthetic with a good additive package. ..


There are still PAO products out there, but you seem to have some really particular tastes. You'll have to go find the Delvac 1, since you seem to have convinced yourself it's the only thing that will fit your wants.

Notice, I said "wants"; not "needs".

We know nothing about your useage, environment, OCIs or such. Kind of hard for us to make reasonable suggestions not knowing these things.

I suspect you're convinced that only a PAO will save your precious Dmax. In fact, not just PAO, but only one brand/grade.

My Dmax gets a steady diet of whatever dino HDEO is on sale, and I sleep well at night. After all, it is one of the easiest on oil of all the light-duty diesels out there. There are, by now, thousands of used oil analysis to prove this. It runs just fine, with no problems affecting wear or longevity, on conventional oils. Even in extreme environments. Even with heavy towing.

You may or may not find what you "want", but what you "need" is likely available at any auto-parts house or mass distribution center near you.

21 posts since 2006? That's a lot of lurking and a whole lot of restraint. I presume you read a great deal and don't post much? If so, then you should not be "disgusted" by the information you do and do not get from lubricant marketing teams and FAQ pages. Also, I would think that you'd understand by now that any lubricant you buy is a "blend" of base stock and additive package. There is no "pure" PAO you're going to find that you can stick directly into the crankcase. So, any product you by is a compromise to some degree. Further, you should recognize that base stock is not the only means to measure the abilities of a lubricant. PDS files will give you predictions based upon inputs, but used oil analysis will tell you how things actually perform.

If you "want" to use only one brand/grade of PAO, then that is fine by me. But you haven't convinced me that you "need" it. And don't become "disgusted" when you can't seem to find a lube that fit's your "wants" when there is a mirade of products available out there that all perform admirably. If you're THAT upset about it, start your own lubricant company and fill that niche you perceive to be void.



Wow, hostile dripping sarcasm reigns supreme...

I never said anything about "needs" I said that was what I wanted. I'm sure 15w40 Rotella would meet my "needs" just fine and I could find that anywhere. But being that it's my money going to pay for it, and this is still America, I am pretty sure I'm still allowed to buy whatever I WANT to buy. After all, my "precious Dmax" deserves it.
wink.gif
Now I am truely sorry that I haven't convinced you of my "need" for it. That matters a great deal to me. I will probably toss and turn all night over that.
smirk.gif
 
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