Idea for cheaper tire pressure monitor system...

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I think it's a dumb idea too. But I'm all for cheapening that dumb idea so it doesn't cost me as much.

A tire pressure warning would still benefit me, as I check pressure once a week, but if I picked up a nail, it'd let me know I've dropped from 35 to 25 in a day.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Master ACiD:
see the problem is those tyre pressure monitors are not that expensive to make. look i have a remote indoor/outdoor thermometer with 2 probes and it cost me $10. theres not a big difference between a thermometer and a pressure monitor. its just that people like making profit, and tyre pressure monitors are still sort of new with reguards to everyday use, so everyone charges alot for them.

Actually it is a much bigger deal to do these monitors than your example. They have to measure pressure which is more difficult than temp, run from micro power, be virtually 100% reliable, feed the data to another onboard system, and survive in an automotive environment to list just a few of the issues. That's why the $50-$100 numbers being thrown around for the cost are reasonable.

I'm with the others who think it's a total waste of money however. I own a number of tire pressure gauges and use them. I'm also aware of how the vehicle feels when the tires are low.

Thanks to the folks who know better than me what I need though, I won't have a choice to buy them or not if I want a newer vehicle.
 
I'm all for tech that is functional, cost/effective and makes sense. Dual-automatic climate controlers that cost $1000 to replace verses a simple rotary temp knob????
 
quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
Thanks to the folks who know better than me what I need though, I won't have a choice to buy them or not if I want a newer vehicle.

I think we can thank the Exploder/Firestone debacle for this extra idiot light. The air-less tire can't get here soon enough.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Its called get your lazy butt out with a tire gauge and check em. If you cant do that or check the oil, you shouldnt be driving. Total cost: $2.98 at the parts store

Dan


Ya took the words right out of my mouth
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Umm, they are located 100 miles away from one another. People need to take care of / manage their own cars and this type of device helps people who are poorly trained/informed.
 
I'm sure this same conversation took place 80 some years ago over people getting new fangled gas gauges in cars instead of stopping and using a stick to see how much gas was in the tank.
 
A gas gauge has utilty. However with this being required, its yet another thing we are not given a choice for at large cost with little or no utility.

Yet another reason I will never own a new car. Dont care for all the extra overhead just to keep the car running. This is just one more POS that must be kept alive and will break at some point and needlessly complicates manufacture and repair.

I can just imagine the bone pickers suing the maufacturer when this does not work and some idiot dies driving on a flat tire the computer didnt let them know about.

A $2 air gauge works much better and more reliably.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Its called get your lazy butt out with a tire gauge and check em. If you cant do that or check the oil, you shouldnt be driving. Total cost: $2.98 at the parts store

Dan


cheers.gif
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JMH
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
I'm sure this same conversation took place 80 some years ago over people getting new fangled gas gauges in cars instead of stopping and using a stick to see how much gas was in the tank.

Maybe. The difference here is, this is mandated. Want a new car and you'll have to pay for it, even if you don't feel you need it and don't want it.
 
If people would actually maintain their vehicles and keep it running like new throughout its lifecycle, stuff like this wouldnt need to be mandated.

Unfortunately, history has shown that this isnt the case, thus we have all the smog checks, mandated equipment, etc.

if everyone was like the members on BITOG, most of the stuff wouldnt need to be mandated.

JMH
 
YOUR WHEELS
Even with warning systems, tires still need some TLC
By Ralph Vartabedian
Times Staff Writer

September 6, 2006

Nothing but compressed air, certainly not the rubber tread on the tires, keeps your vehicle suspended over the road.

So, the amount of air in the tires is vitally important, a fact that is relentlessly driven home by safety experts but ignored by many motorists.

After more than 80 people died in Ford Explorers that were equipped withpoorly inflated Firestone tires in the late 1990s, Congress passed the
Tread Act, mandating, among other things, that auto makers install tire pressure monitoring systems on future vehicles. Currently being phased in, the act will require all new cars to have such a monitor by September 2008.

But as implemented by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the rules were quickly assailed by critics for a weak and ineffective
approach to the problem.

Since 2000, the issue of tire pressure has become even more critical, as motorists opt in increasing numbers for low aspect ratio tires that depend
on closely monitored air pressure to avoid blowouts caused by potholes and other road hazards.

A close look at tire pressure monitoring systems shows that, in general, they will fail to relieve car owners of the burden of closely watching
their tire pressures. While they may help to alert people of dangerously low air pressure, they will generally not warn drivers of air pressure low
enough to cause slow tire damage.

Two basic types of technology are used in tire pressure monitoring systems, or TPMS: direct and indirect. The less expensive approach adopted by
some auto manufacturers is called "indirect" and uses anti-lock braking systems to provide signals for the system.

When a tire has low pressure, it tends to rotate at a slower speed than the other tires, which the anti-lock system sensors and computers can
detect. All auto makers have to do is create some software and put a warning light on the dashboard.

But Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, said these systems "are wrong 50% of the time." Ditlow, along with the
Washington-based consumer group PublicCitizen, sued the NHTSA and won a judgment that the agency's rule did not satisfy the intent of the Tread Act. But ultimately, the agency issued a rule that still left safety advocates
and some members of the tire industry fuming.

Even the system's core mission - to warn of dangerously low air pressure - has loopholes under the NHTSA's final revised rule issued last year.
The system does not have to detect low air pressure for a full 20 minutes after a tire begins to lose air, for example. The loophole was put in to accommodate the limits of technology in the indirect system, according to Gerald Donaldson, a safety expert at Advocates for Highway Safety in
Washington, D.C.

Another key shortcoming of NHTSA's rule is that the systems are not required to tell the driver which tire is low, only that one of the four tires
has a problem. Donaldson, among others, said the lack of specific information could lead some motorists to ignore the warning.

The second type of technology is called the "direct" system and uses independent pressure sensors inside each tire stem. The sensors have
electronic transmitters that can send more reliable air pressure data to the car's computer. While an indirect system might only cost a few dollars, a direct system could cost $50 or more for all four tires, according tire experts. Most, if not all, automakers will opt for direct systems by 2008, experts say.

With both types of technology, however, the NHTSA set up rules that significantly compromised the effectiveness of the systems, critics say. The
standard calls for warning the driver when the tire pressure drops 25% below the level recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

"One of our concerns is that it gives the motorist a false sense of security," said Matt Edmonds, vice president at Tire Rack, a major Internet
tire retailer that has long conducted independent testing of tires. "The unfortunate part is that with indirect systems you can get a false warning.
Then there is no confidence in the system."

Tire manufacturers set maximum inflation ratings for their tires, but it is the vehicle manufacturer that decides the recommended inflation for a specific vehicle.

Many vehicles, for example, have a recommended pressure of 32 pounds per square inch (psi), meaning the TPMS would not notify the driver until
the pressure dropped by 8 pounds per square inch to 24 psi. In some extreme cases, such as the older Ford Explorers, tires carry recommended
pressure of only 26 psi, meaning the warning system would not alert the driver until the
pressure was down to 19.5 psi.

Donaldson said the NHTSA should have required a system that notifies a driver when pressure drops 15% or 20% below the recommended level. An NHTSA
official said the agency was concerned that if drivers were notified of low pressure too often, they would begin to ignore the warnings, terming it a "nuisance." The 25% level was selected because it provided a warning of "extreme danger," according to an agency spokesman.

But by the time pressure drops 25%, the tire is undergoing damage to its internal construction, according to experts.

Bill VandeWater, consumer tire products manager for Bridgestone, said tire damage begins when pressure drops 5 pounds per square inch below the
vehicle manufacturer's recommendation.

"Five pounds per square inch is a good rule of thumb," he said. "We would never like to see it go less than 5 pounds below the level recommended
by the vehicle maker."

After the NHTSA issued its final rule, the tire industry sent a letter explaining bluntly what it thought: The Tire Industry Assn., a trade
group, said it believed the final rule was "fatally flawed" and added, "This final rule will not keep the motoring public safe."

The upshot here is that the consumer is still responsible for crouching down at least once a month and measuring the pressure in each of the tires on his or her vehicle. It seems to me that if consumers are willing to pay for such
creature comforts as power windows, leather seats and compact disc players, they would also pay $50 for a system that would give a digital readout
on their dashboard of each tire's pressure.

To make your life a little easier, I suggest buying an inexpensive air compressor for your garage. Having your own compressor is a lot better
than fooling around with cruddy hoses at the gas station. Basic compressors cost as little as $60 and are useful for all kinds of other projects. Like blowing the dust off your car's owner's manual.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
... Another key shortcoming of NHTSA's rule is that the systems are not required to tell the driver which tire is low, only that one of the four tires has a problem. Donaldson, among others, said the lack of specific information could lead some motorists to ignore the warning...

Just how lazy is the general public? It's not enough to tell them that they have a tire that's low on air, but now they have to be told WHICH tire! You think it's be good enough to get their attention that NOW is the time to check ALL four tires. Geez.

This is what automotive engineers have to put up with... designing cars so morons can drive them!
 
Beep, beep, beep.

I guess one drawback would be not hearing the warning if the tire went low while driving. I would say that if you set out on a trip and started with decent pressure (no warning) you are in good shape. I guess my system would be best supplemented with the passive system that would alert while driving on the road.
 
No system is necessary other than a tire gauge. If they are too lazy to use a tire gauge, they are too lazy to pay attention to an idiot alarm.

another useless bit of technology.

dan
 
"If they are too lazy to use a tire gauge, they are too lazy to pay attention to an idiot alarm."

You might be jumping to a conclusion there. Many people exist in a fog and ignore required tasks, like checking pressue (and oil), until "told" to do so by an "idiot light". At that time, they respond quickly and positively to the "advice" of a black box. That's how it is and I would count VERY many people in that group, inc Mom and MiL.


"another useless bit of technology"


"useless?" You mean like a tire guage when the vehicle is moving? lol.

It's now time to point out the obvious; that a "tire pressure monitor system" IS the same thing as a tire guage. One is automatic, easier to use and operates while the car is in motion. The other operates manually and only when the vehicle is standing still, when the operator remembers to use it.

Freezing rain and scortching heat are the ideal times to bend down outside and check the pressure manually. Wonderfull.
 
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