I Sea-foamed all my small engines...it worked

[boraticus]

It would appear that us nay-sayers have angered the druids.

There shall be no levity at BITOG!

Shoot, you'd think that people who believe in magic would have more of a sense of humour?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
I read the article and nowhere does it state at what percentage of ethanol to fuel that damage may occur.

If you read the entire article, it's using the potential for engine damage to argue against the use of ethanol as leverage against the ethanol industry. Further reading will bring one to the realization that the article is an argument against ethanol use as a fuel source because it's driving up the price of corn. Which I have no problem with.

However, claiming that E10 is bad for engines is a stretch. A real long stretch. E10 has been used in northern climates for decades with absolutely NO backlash from consumers. I'd agree that higher ratios of ethanol to fuel may play havoc on engines but as it is, E10 is harmless.

By the way, if alcohol based fuels were so harmful, why would it be used in Formula One cars and top fuel drag racers?

Sure, they're short term use engines but if the damaging corrosive properties of ethanol were so prevalent, you'd think that a machine running on pure alcohol wouldn't last ten minutes.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Got to run. Have to feed the elf.




Not so sure E10 has been used in Northern climates for decades? I think that is a big stretch. 1st showed up here(NH) in 2006 when it became mandated by the EPA to replace MTBE. May have been used a little before that in the upper mid west region. Decades though?

There has been a lot of backlash against it here in my area due to the drop in MPG and also the problems it caused in older vehicles( very caustic and dissolves crud in oldere tanks causing problems ). No issues other than fuel economy though with newer vehicles. There was a ton of backlash from gas station owners who had to put in new tanks and filtration systems to deal with the different storage demands of ethanol blended fuels.

There has actually been a lot of angry response to ethanol blended fuels in this area although probably not for the reasons you were thinking of. It is not a popular thing in this area. The talk of going to E15 has people almost ready to revolt.

At least speaking for myself I am not saying just the act of using 10% ethanol in fuel will cause damage to small engines. I am talking about storage issues. Those are moisture issues, the ethanol separating from the fuel, and even that nasty red algea like funky growth it can get if it sits for a long time. There are definite issues with ethanol blended fuels and small engines because ethanol blended fuels have a short shelf life(( 3 months +/- )and suffer from long term storage issues. For most folks long term storage is a fact of life with small engines.

Now, E15 or E20 in small engines is a different story. I believe you will find at that level there will be problems or at the least mfg's will not honor warranty in engiens that run it. I guess Mercury Marine is already cautioning aginst using it in their Outboards. My marina says Mercury told them they are not setup and prepared for the changes required for E15 and they will not honor warranty on engines that run it if E15 becomes available. True?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
It would appear that us nay-sayers have angered the druids.

There shall be no levity at BITOG!

Shoot, you'd think that people who believe in magic would have more of a sense of humour?


No offense but your posts do not come across as levity or humor. They come across as insulting, rude, and demeaning. If you are trying to be funny you need to word things better.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
"oh and briggs recommends you pull the head and brush off the carbon every tune up. ask a small engine man carbon is a prob with any flat head."

Wouldn't it be easier just to run some SeaFoam through it? You'd think that's what B&S would recommend. No?


lol well by god thats what id do lol ta heck with pulling the head if my mower runs like [censored] ill seafoam it in a heartbeat!!

 

[Panzerman]

No love for Ethanol in Florida either. Boat owners are in a uproar, that the gas stations are all mandated to carry it by our very ex-governor. You can buy non-ethanol at Marinas for a higher price which is ironic, since its actually cheaper to produce.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: boraticus
It would appear that us nay-sayers have angered the druids.

There shall be no levity at BITOG!

Shoot, you'd think that people who believe in magic would have more of a sense of humour?


No offense but your posts do not come across as levity or humor. They come across as insulting, rude, and demeaning. If you are trying to be funny you need to word things better.


Well, one's opinion/perception of humour all depends on which side of the joke you're on. I'm certain the snake oil believers don't like it but that's to be expected. On the other hand.....

 

[ddrumman2004]

Originally Posted By: boraticus

If you read the entire article, it's using the potential for engine damage to argue against the use of ethanol as leverage against the ethanol industry. Further reading will bring one to the realization that the article is an argument against ethanol use as a fuel source because it's driving up the price of corn. Which I have no problem with.


Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Got to run. Have to feed the elf.




So you have no problem with the price of corn going up? Do you raise corn? If so, I can see that. But we eat corn here and it's used in a lot of food products which also would rise in price. Groceries are expensive, even here in the south.

So don't believe everything I read on the internet? Must mean a lot of the stuff posted here. No?

You feed that elf corn?

LOL! Have a great holiday season!

Anyway, Seafoam has helped clear up a bad running motorcycle of mine after it sat for over a month. Some in the tank cleared it right up!

 

[boraticus]

"Not so sure E10 has been used in Northern climates for decades? I think that is a big stretch."

Canada has been using ethanol in winter gasoline for "decades". Maybe not 10% but it's been there. Over ten years ago, ethanol blends were introduced for year round use.

The following quote is from the government of Ontario Ministry of Environment:

"Ethanol-blended gasoline has been widely distributed across the province for over 10 years"

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: ddrumman2004
Originally Posted By: boraticus

If you read the entire article, it's using the potential for engine damage to argue against the use of ethanol as leverage against the ethanol industry. Further reading will bring one to the realization that the article is an argument against ethanol use as a fuel source because it's driving up the price of corn. Which I have no problem with.


Don't believe everything you read on the internet.






Got to run. Have to feed the elf.




So you have no problem with the price of corn going up? Do you raise corn? If so, I can see that. But we eat corn here and it's used in a lot of food products which also would rise in price. Groceries are expensive, even here in the south.

So don't believe everything I read on the internet? Must mean a lot of the stuff posted here. No?



LOL! Have a great holiday season!

Anyway, Seafoam has helped clear up a bad running motorcycle of mine after it sat for over a month. Some in the tank cleared it right up!



On the contrary. I do have a problem with corn being used for fuel purposes. I think the ethanol fuel initiative is a scam on a monumental scale.

I didn't have a problem with the article challenging the use of corn for fuel. I fully agree that it's wrong to cause the price of a food product to go up just to use it for automotive fuel.

"You feed that elf corn?"

No silly. It eats SeaFoam and MMO.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: boraticus
"oh and briggs recommends you pull the head and brush off the carbon every tune up. ask a small engine man carbon is a prob with any flat head."

Wouldn't it be easier just to run some SeaFoam through it? You'd think that's what B&S would recommend. No?


lol well by god thats what id do lol ta heck with pulling the head if my mower runs like [censored] ill seafoam it in a heartbeat!!


Then why wouldn't Briggs & Stratton make it easy for everyone and tell us to run SeaFoam through the engine?

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
lol well by god thats what id do lol ta heck with pulling the head if my mower runs like [censored] ill seafoam it in a heartbeat!!


This sort of meaningless, jump-on-the-magical-bandwagon marketing fluff is exactly why people become skeptical of all this add-on, extra-cost snake oil junk: With absolutely nothing to back up the claims but wish thinking, speculation, junk science, guesswork, irrelevant comparisons, popularity judgments, missing, wrong, or incomplete diagnoses, hasty conclusions, hare-brained theories, recitation of marketing slogans, and "because that's how we've always done it" rationality, all claims about additives and expensive maintenance routines are meaningless and serve only to enrich the people selling the product.

Why is it there are so many people here who will criticize the government for spending money wastefully, but then go out and buy all this garbage and don't ever ask the right questions about whether they're getting their money's worth? If there's carbon build-up, why? Is it running rich? Is it overloaded? Did you use the proper motor oil? Was there fuel contamination? Did you put an additive in the fuel that wasn't supposed to be there? Would it have fixed itself if you just followed the recommendations and left it alone? Fairy dust isn't going to fix it if you haven't solved the root cause, but most of the comments here fail to mention any other solutions that have been attempted prior to throwing magical chemicals at it and proclaiming a miracle.

I've tried Seafoam, Redline FI cleaner, and Techron in mowers, generators, 6 different cars and 1 gas-powered farm tractor. Know what the results were? None. No differences or problems solved in any application. Not fuel economy, not starting, not performance, not longevity, not the sticky rings on the Ford 9N, not the sticky float or the crusty carb jet on the Honda generator or mower, NOTHING except I had less money to make charitable donations. The 96 Northstar was the most problematic engine I used it on. Put Seafoam through the brake booster line and ran it in many tanks of gas. Had all the smokiness everybody mentions when I did the induction, followed all the advice. No change. Ran double doses of Techron, no change. Still drank oil, gas mileage didn't change, occasional misfire code after new plugs. Still had carbon on the piston crowns when I changed out the Bosch platinum plugs that fell apart after about 12k miles. Conclusion: Additives are useless, and the Bosch plugs were not worth the $1/each I paid for them.

If I scope the spark plug hole on a Honda GX390 and there's carbon on the piston, I just reinstall the plug and fire it up. Carbon and deposits don't hurt anything. They're a normal part of running an engine, and unless it's definitely causing a problem, I think it's best to leave it alone. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

If I put MMO, Redline, Techron, Regane, Seafoam, B12, FP, Redline 2-cycle oil, and a pinch of powdered lizard tail in every tank of gas, plus expensive synthetic oil, LG, AutoRX, and MMO in the oil and the transmission, and my car lasts to 200k miles, did the additives do it? Or would it have been fine without all the stuff? What would the costs be over the lifetime of the car with and without this regimen? What could I have done with that money instead of just paying some anonymous corporation to give me peace of mind? Does it prove ANYTHING other than I have obsessive-compulsive tendencies and an overactive imagination? Given all the cars that run until the body falls apart around the engine, while being fed normal, manufacturer-specified maintenance routines, it's a matter of the simplest explanation most likely being the right one. I can't remember ever reading anywhere or being told that an engine died or required expensive repairs because the operator failed to use an additive.

Would that maintenance routine hurt anything? Why do most if not all engine manufacturers specifically state not to use any additives in the oil? What if I did put MMO in every tank of gas and every other oil change in the sump from the time it was new, and the car still required a set of rings and a new fuel injector at 180k miles. Did the MMO do it? Would it have lasted as long or longer before repair without it? What if I bought a Honda that said "use no additives," I followed their advice, and the car required repairs above and beyond its value 15k miles after the warranty expired? Would I buy another Honda? Would the cost of MMO have offset the cost of the repairs? NOBODY KNOWS, yet people come around here extolling the virtues of all this expensive stuff that makes completely absurd marketing claims like it's some kind of chemical savior of all things automotive. I call shenanigans on all of it, just like fuel line magnets, hydrogen injection systems, and the intake tornado thing.

 

[Smokescreen]

You want to see even more cleaning, fill the tank half full of gas, half full of toluene...that will do some cleaning for you...

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
You want to see even more cleaning, fill the tank half full of gas, half full of toluene...that will do some cleaning for you...

its funny i know pple that run it and xylene but the add an ucl
like mmo. its good for 20 pds of boost tho

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
Originally Posted By: electrolover
lol well by god thats what id do lol ta heck with pulling the head if my mower runs like [censored] ill seafoam it in a heartbeat!!


This sort of meaningless, jump-on-the-magical-bandwagon marketing fluff is exactly why people become skeptical of all this add-on, extra-cost snake oil junk: With absolutely nothing to back up the claims but wish thinking, speculation, junk science, guesswork, irrelevant comparisons, popularity judgments, missing, wrong, or incomplete diagnoses, hasty conclusions, hare-brained theories, recitation of marketing slogans, and "because that's how we've always done it" rationality, all claims about additives and expensive maintenance routines are meaningless and serve only to enrich the people selling the product.

Why is it there are so many people here who will criticize the government for spending money wastefully, but then go out and buy all this garbage and don't ever ask the right questions about whether they're getting their money's worth? If there's carbon build-up, why? Is it running rich? Is it overloaded? Did you use the proper motor oil? Was there fuel contamination? Did you put an additive in the fuel that wasn't supposed to be there? Would it have fixed itself if you just followed the recommendations and left it alone? Fairy dust isn't going to fix it if you haven't solved the root cause, but most of the comments here fail to mention any other solutions that have been attempted prior to throwing magical chemicals at it and proclaiming a miracle.

I've tried Seafoam, Redline FI cleaner, and Techron in mowers, generators, 6 different cars and 1 gas-powered farm tractor. Know what the results were? None. No differences or problems solved in any application. Not fuel economy, not starting, not performance, not longevity, not the sticky rings on the Ford 9N, not the sticky float or the crusty carb jet on the Honda generator or mower, NOTHING except I had less money to make charitable donations. The 96 Northstar was the most problematic engine I used it on. Put Seafoam through the brake booster line and ran it in many tanks of gas. Had all the smokiness everybody mentions when I did the induction, followed all the advice. No change. Ran double doses of Techron, no change. Still drank oil, gas mileage didn't change, occasional misfire code after new plugs. Still had carbon on the piston crowns when I changed out the Bosch platinum plugs that fell apart after about 12k miles. Conclusion: Additives are useless, and the Bosch plugs were not worth the $1/each I paid for them.

If I scope the spark plug hole on a Honda GX390 and there's carbon on the piston, I just reinstall the plug and fire it up. Carbon and deposits don't hurt anything. They're a normal part of running an engine, and unless it's definitely causing a problem, I think it's best to leave it alone. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

If I put MMO, Redline, Techron, Regane, Seafoam, B12, FP, Redline 2-cycle oil, and a pinch of powdered lizard tail in every tank of gas, plus expensive synthetic oil, LG, AutoRX, and MMO in the oil and the transmission, and my car lasts to 200k miles, did the additives do it? Or would it have been fine without all the stuff? What would the costs be over the lifetime of the car with and without this regimen? What could I have done with that money instead of just paying some anonymous corporation to give me peace of mind? Does it prove ANYTHING other than I have obsessive-compulsive tendencies and an overactive imagination? Given all the cars that run until the body falls apart around the engine, while being fed normal, manufacturer-specified maintenance routines, it's a matter of the simplest explanation most likely being the right one. I can't remember ever reading anywhere or being told that an engine died or required expensive repairs because the operator failed to use an additive.

Would that maintenance routine hurt anything? Why do most if not all engine manufacturers specifically state not to use any additives in the oil? What if I did put MMO in every tank of gas and every other oil change in the sump from the time it was new, and the car still required a set of rings and a new fuel injector at 180k miles. Did the MMO do it? Would it have lasted as long or longer before repair without it? What if I bought a Honda that said "use no additives," I followed their advice, and the car required repairs above and beyond its value 15k miles after the warranty expired? Would I buy another Honda? Would the cost of MMO have offset the cost of the repairs? NOBODY KNOWS, yet people come around here extolling the virtues of all this expensive stuff that makes completely absurd marketing claims like it's some kind of chemical savior of all things automotive. I call shenanigans on all of it, just like fuel line magnets, hydrogen injection systems, and the intake tornado thing.

tl;dr

 

[helix_rider]

What I can't believe is that the mods haven't locked this thread. Way out of control and past the point of recovery.

BTW, I occasionally use Seafoam - with positive results - and am a regular MMO User. So, jump on me too!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, but there is a proper way to stress an opinion or belief. What i've seen in this thread is way too far over the line. What an example some of us are setting for the newer members (my way is the only way & everyone else is wrong - all additives are snake oil) - you should be proud...

 

[helix_rider]

Coach - if it's working for you, great. It (Seafoam) has worked for me in the past - saving a couple of carb rebuilds. No question as to the before/after effects (sputtering/barely idling to purring like a kitten) in a couple of scooters I bought cheap that had been sitting for a couple of years.

Of course it took a while (about 30-min.) for the transition to take full effect, but it did. Would just fresh gasoline have given the same effect? Nope, tried just that and no dice.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind as to whether Seafoam works - but that's my opinion only.

 

[Bill in Utah]

And since this thread has gone out of subject many times above (hint, its not about E10, E15, E20 or corn) and got someone some time off I'm going to lock it.