I did the forbidden wire trick....

[chorty]

Needed "12ga capacity" for 30amps on a trailer, but didn't have any.

So I reused the old 6/14ga lead, picked two colors, and doubled up with the 14ga wires.

Figured its ~25% more capacity then 12ga, and in a really nice heavy jacket for being close to the tires and axles.

Forbidden!!!!

Also used rock-tite on the lug nuts after they fell into the dirt too.

 

[Bailey28]

LOL... "rock tite"? That tube must have come from China..

 

[KGMtech]

Repent Now! The Lord of Ohm will seek you out! And your nuts will never be same.

 

[JimPghPA]

My new furnace is smart enough that if GND is not tied to Neutral someplace, such as when I run it during power-outages from my Mean-Well brand high Reliability pure sine-wave inverter connected to my CR-V with an Apex 6 phase alternator that can output 187 Amps at idle, then that furnace will only run the combustion air induced fan like it's gonna start, but then shuts down.

I have a hundred foot 12 GA outdoor cord and that furnace draws 3 amps max. I also run my modern fridge and a couple led lights.probably totaling out less than 5 amps.

I tied GND and Neutral inside the inverter and also in a 1 ft extension cord I place at the furnace side of that cord. I figure one leg of the 100 ft cord is paralleled, thereby reducing the total resistance to equal a 75 ft cord, for less voltage drop.

Probably someone somewhere will say, but that's not up to code.

 

[factorytuned2012]

My new furnace is smart enough that if GND is not tied to Neutral someplace, such as when I run it during power-outages from my Mean-Well brand high Reliability pure sine-wave inverter connected to my CR-V with an Apex 6 phase alternator that can output 187 Amps at idle, then that furnace will only run the combustion air induced fan like it's gonna start, but then shuts down.

I have a hundred foot 12 GA outdoor cord and that furnace draws 3 amps max. I also run my modern fridge and a couple led lights.probably totaling out less than 5 amps.

I tied GND and Neutral inside the inverter and also in a 1 ft extension cord I place at the furnace side of that cord. I figure one leg of the 100 ft cord is paralleled, thereby reducing the total resistance to equal a 75 ft cord, for less voltage drop.

Probably someone somewhere will say, but that's not up to code.

So you have current on the ground back to the generator.. Does the generator have a spot where you could ground the chassis? Not safe the generator frame or anything metallic probably has voltage on it possibly even the appliances. If you had a transfer switch or interlock and a generator socket you could avoid all that being your ground and neutrals are bonded there. I also would say you’re not doing that furnace or fridge circuitry any favors grounds are used for reference points you don’t want something like a furnace board that has 24v circuitry getting hit with 120. Unless I’m misinterpreting your statement. Please correct me

 

[chorty]

Oh he's doing a no-no, especially on anything modern. The only bond that should take place is at the entrance. Using a generator, or any other means that doesn't break your bonded neutral @ SE, you need to rewire and UNBOND the armature on the Genny, then stab a ground rod into the dirt. Obviously this makes using it on jobsites dangerous, so they make little dealy-dos with the neutral and ground tied together ,and you just plug it into your generator, assuming its setup as a floating neutral.

Before nema and NEC pushed 3 wire conductors and plugs, polarized blades kept things in check where the neutral get wired, and assumed the outlet wasn't all blown out like my first date in highschool. And yes, using a transformer to achieve 24v needs to use the neutral, and that shouldn't be tied to ground.

The only thing that expects voltage on a ground is the circuit breaker, and ends up as an immediate trip.

A lot of equipment uses ground/neutral checks, and honestly some inverters are kinda garbage and do weird trickery to make their ugly 120v to neutral, as ground to hot isn't a true 120v.

I wouldn't run your equipment on anything that's cheap, and most folks don't have a scope to check THD ugliness, outside of the ground/neutral fiasco.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Oh he's doing a no-no, especially on anything modern. The only bond that should take place is at the entrance. Using a generator, or any other means that doesn't break your bonded neutral @ SE, you need to rewire and UNBOND the armature on the Genny, then stab a ground rod into the dirt. Obviously this makes using it on jobsites dangerous, so they make little dealy-dos with the neutral and ground tied together ,and you just plug it into your generator, assuming its setup as a floating neutral.

Before nema and NEC pushed 3 wire conductors and plugs, polarized blades kept things in check where the neutral get wired, and assumed the outlet wasn't all blown out like my first date in highschool. And yes, using a transformer to achieve 24v needs to use the neutral, and that shouldn't be tied to ground.

The only thing that expects voltage on a ground is the circuit breaker, and ends up as an immediate trip.

A lot of equipment uses ground/neutral checks, and honestly some inverters are kinda garbage and do weird trickery to make their ugly 120v to neutral, as ground to hot isn't a true 120v.

I wouldn't run your equipment on anything that's cheap, and most folks don't have a scope to check THD ugliness, outside of the ground/neutral fiasco.

May get away with a GFCI receptacle.. no equipment ground but the appliances may be fooled by the ground fault receptacle. If the fridge uses an inverter type compressor that may make a gfci unhappy

 

[nomas]

The only thing that expects voltage on a ground is the circuit breaker, and ends up as an immediate trip.

Can you explain that statement ?

 

[JimPghPA]

So you have current on the ground back to the generator.. Does the generator have a spot where you could ground the chassis? Not safe the generator frame or anything metallic probably has voltage on it possibly even the appliances. If you had a transfer switch or interlock and a generator socket you could avoid all that being your ground and neutrals are bonded there. I also would say you’re not doing that furnace or fridge circuitry any favors grounds are used for reference points you don’t want something like a furnace board that has 24v circuitry getting hit with 120. Unless I’m misinterpreting your statement. Please correct me

I tied the furnace GND permanently to the house power GND by means of a short length 12 ga wire to the 120 duel female wall type socket when I disconnected the furnace input power and replaced it with a cord from a discarded window air-conditioner unit.



So the furnace input power box does always have gnd.

To connect my inverter or a generator, I unplug the furnace power cord and plug it into the extension cord.

Even during unplugging and plugging into another source, the furnace maintains it gnd to the house power gnd.

---------------

When in use, the inverter sits on the velcro carpet of the floor inside my CR-V behind the front passengers seat. The 12 Volt zero gage wire that ties the inverter feed to the vehicles 12 Volts is isolated electrically from the inverters output and it's gnd lug.

I installed a hidden door so the 12 ga cord can exit below the vehivle. The cord is tied around a seat leg and then to the inverter output.

The vehicle is locked when it's ran like this.

No one can access the frame of the inverter.

 

[factorytuned2012]

I tied the furnace GND permanently to the house power GND by means of a short length 12 ga wire to the 120 duel female wall type socket when I disconnected the furnace input power and replaced it with a cord from a discarded window air-conditioner unit.



So the furnace input power box does always have gnd.

To connect my inverter or a generator, I unplug the furnace power cord and plug it into the extension cord.

Even during unplugging and plugging into another source, the furnace maintains it gnd to the house power gnd.

---------------

When in use, the inverter sits on the velcro carpet of the floor inside my CR-V behind the front passengers seat. The 12 Volt zero gage wire that ties the inverter feed to the vehicles 12 Volts is isolated electrically from the inverters output and it's gnd lug.

I installed a hidden door so the 12 ga cord can exit below the vehivle. The cord is tied around a seat leg and then to the inverter output.

The vehicle is locked when it's ran like this.

No one can access the frame of the inverter.

You ever looked into these switches
https://ezgeneratorswitch.com/product/ez-generator-switch/

This may help keep your critical circuits and appliances wired properly and safely during the event you need to run your inverter

 

[Bill_W]

Code Breakers… My neighbor fed a 16 ga. wire and wondered why his HF air compressor failed.

 

[chorty]

Can you explain that statement ?

Can you explain that statement ?

Neutral to ground bond allows it.

Reason its required at the SE, and no where else.

 

[chorty]

I tied the furnace GND permanently to the house power GND by means of a short length 12 ga wire to the 120 duel female wall type socket when I disconnected the furnace input power and replaced it with a cord from a discarded window air-conditioner unit.



So the furnace input power box does always have gnd.

To connect my inverter or a generator, I unplug the furnace power cord and plug it into the extension cord.

Even during unplugging and plugging into another source, the furnace maintains it gnd to the house power gnd.

---------------

When in use, the inverter sits on the velcro carpet of the floor inside my CR-V behind the front passengers seat. The 12 Volt zero gage wire that ties the inverter feed to the vehicles 12 Volts is isolated electrically from the inverters output and it's gnd lug.

I installed a hidden door so the 12 ga cord can exit below the vehivle. The cord is tied around a seat leg and then to the inverter output.

The vehicle is locked when it's ran like this.

No one can access the frame of the inverter.

Ground from two separate circuit's doesn't mean their connected.

The center tap transformer confuses a lot of people, especially there's two 120 volts of magnitude, then bonding the ground conductor to the center of the transformer is a step further of confusion, its more of safety vs functionality, especially inside a home that uses overload devices to protect not only the home, the person, THEN GFCIs....even more confusion....

Then Introducing diodes, rectification, windings and switching of 60hz to/from neutral and hot, which is now from your car and yet another step of confusion, then assuming since they're both having a green wire means they're safe!!

 

[nomas]

Neutral to ground bond allows it.

Reason its required at the SE, and no where else.

That has nothing to do with my question .

 

[chorty]

Can you explain that statement ?

That has nothing to do with my question .

Yes i did.

If the ground circuit sees an overload because of a appliances malfunction it'll trip the breaker instead if just keeping the steel frame energized.

If its not bonded, then YOU will become the ground as you touch it, since your feet and the transformer center tap are both grounded, which is connected to the neutral.

This a serious question? Read up on center taps...,

Again, the neutral-ground bond allows circuit breakers to trip if there's a ground fault.

 

[nomas]

If the ground circuit sees an overload because of a appliances malfunction it'll trip the breaker instead if just keeping the steel frame energized.

If its not bonded, then YOU will become the ground as you touch it, since your feet and the transformer center tap are both grounded, which is connected to the neutral.

This a serious question? Read up on center taps...,

Again, the neutral-ground bond allows circuit breakers to trip if there's a ground fault.

Are you talking about a GFCI breaker , or a molded case breaker that has thermal and magnetic trip functions ?

 

[chorty]

Are you talking about a GFCI breaker , or a molded case breaker that has thermal and magnetic trip functions ?

Neither.

Firmware written software CAFCIs that also do parallel and series arc fault detection, along with magnetic thermal trip, which are also include GFCI technology.

I prefer PON. Less wires in the panel.

 

[chorty]

Repent Now! The Lord of Ohm will seek you out! And your nuts will never be same.

I know. I've never done the double up trick. But the wire was so nice, I couldn't throw it into the 3rd 55gal drum of wire odds and ends.

It was still clean, no nicks, and I just couldn't justify spending $50 on more wire, to throw some of it away, when I could repurpose this 20ft lead....

Besides, just magnets... Its not sending power to grandmas $45,000 heart monitor.....