Hybrids

[Rmay635703]

For me it’s sky high insurance and registration costs.

Combined together are more than the cost of gas, yes I own an antique hybrid and drove a plug in hybrid.

I don’t drive enough miles to exceed the insurance and registration costs which far and away exceed maintenance, repairs and fuel costs.

 

[Pablo]

Why is registration more?

 

[Hermann]

I find them to be incredibly dull to drive. No, high fuel economy doesn’t impress me, my cobalt gets 32mpg without trying.

Is 7.3 sec 0 to 60 dull.

 

[SC Maintenance]

What is "astronomical"? I want to say, Prius batteries have come down to like $4k. Which sounds like a lot but for something that won't wear out a transmission, is it replacing one anticipated repair with another?

Has anyone actually verified the batteries are still modular like the older Prius batteries so you can change out just the cells. I know with the Rav4 for example at some point they switched from NMH to Lithium. Possibly Lithium lasts longer and never needs replacing anyway? I know I have looked and can't get a straight answer.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Has anyone actually verified the batteries are still modular like the older Prius batteries so you can change out just the cells. I know with the Rav4 for example at some point they switched from NMH to Lithium. Possibly Lithium lasts longer and never needs replacing anyway? I know I have looked and can't get a straight answer.

Does it matter?

1) the battery warranties are 100-150k miles which is far longer than most people keep a car, right?

2) how many people reading this could actually replace a cell by themself or find an independent shop that would do it for them?

Forgive me, but your objections seem more emotional than logical. Good point on the up front cost vs. fuel savings but there are many more things to consider in the lifetime full cost model. How about we just agree to disagree here?

 

[Skippy722]

Is 7.3 sec 0 to 60 dull.

Yes. So was the significantly faster (0-60 in 5.3) Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe that I drove, the cobalt gives more feel than that lifeless husk of a vehicle.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Does it matter?

Yes. It was a technical question. Got an answer, - I would like to know.

1) the battery warranties are 100-150k miles which is far longer than most people keep a car, right?

BTW the warranty is 10/150K and can only be transferred 1 time, last I checked. Not everyone buys new. Most here don't.

2) how many people reading this could actually replace a cell by themself or find an independent shop that would do it for them?

Do you have any clue what website your posting on and the average skill of those here? Not to mention swapping batteries on the older Toyotas was actually quite easy for anyone with any technical competence.

Forgive me, but your objections seem more emotional than logical. Good point on the up front cost vs. fuel savings but there are many more things to consider in the lifetime full cost model. How about we just agree to disagree here?

How was this an objection? Is this your way of telling me to go away? Were your feelings "aroused" per @Al . Its posted on a public forum, my comments were on topic?

 

[brages]

Another issue impacting hybrids is trade-in valuations. They take really big hits after five or so years. The dealers are using the battery as a way to offer less. Neighbor has a 8 year old Prius and wanted to trade it on a new one and even the Toyota dealer was giving him trade-in grief. They actually insinuated that they would have to replace the battery in order to resell it. Whether that's true or not, it's that kind of info that could really hurt hybrid sales not to mention resales! I was seriously thinking about a cx50 hybrid but since I only drive about 6 to 8K miles per year per car (have 2) it would take forever to justify the increased cost based on fuel savings alone.

I was looking at used Priuses not too long ago and I don't believe this is the case. I think the dealer was just trying to scare the guy so they could rip him off.

 

[Al]

Yes. So was the significantly faster (0-60 in 5.3) Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe that I drove, the cobalt gives more feel than that lifeless husk of a vehicle.

My '18 Forester is 4.9 0-60. I'm different and do that once/week, but big deal. At 7.3 My '22 Forester was 8.3 but when you put it to the floor and let it shift at 6500 rpm it wakes you up. Some folks (not you) complain about "slowness" and probably have never let it shift a couple times at full throttle.

 

[Al]

Well I sat in the seats of the XT4, Mazda CX-50, Forester and RAV4. Only the RAV4 and Forester sit up High.

Probably most here know the RAV4 will be all new next year and will offer only Hybrid. For me-now it will be an easy choice as long as the little lady likes the seating in the RAV

 

[lovcom]

Well the simple answer is because your brother in-law and other people don't want a hybrid.

With that being said Hybrid technology has been around for a very long time and has progressively gotten better, Toyota and Honda do it best.

But me personally I do not want a hybrid it is more points of failure, more to go wrong and I like to keep vehicles as long as possible, in the future when electric vehicles get even better hopefully with solid state batteries I will just go electric.

No, hybrids offer LESS points of failure, because less moving parts. Hybrids are not known for reputation for failure...it happens but it is very rare.

 

[lovcom]

When I bought our Rav4 in 2019 the Hybrid variant in that trim was $3k more in MSRP and no discount, and ICE was 5500 off. So $8500 for the hybrid. Hard pass.

Highway miles is much closer in MPG that city miles - so where you drive figures into the ROI, as does gas prices.

They seem to be closer now, but in Toyota at least you still get much higher discounts on ICE, so you can't just compare MSRP.

Personally I prefer ICE - I don't need more components to maintain.

The hybrid version of the Rav4 has more power, better acceleration, and fewer moving parts (components) than the gas-only variant. The difference in price is far less than you wrote. I've got a 2021, and it was around $1,500 more over the gas-only Limited model. We've made up that $1,500 quickly in gas savings. There is no up-side to buying the gas-only...I think those buyers just didn't do their homework before purchase.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Is this your way of telling me to go away?

Of course not! You provide a great deal of valuable input here but I do think that you are dismissing hybrids based upon a grossly oversimplified single variable analysis. Sticking with your argument for a moment though, what happens if gas hits $6/gal if the political pendulum swings left?

As I said earlier, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The hybrid version of the Rav4 has more power, better acceleration, and fewer moving parts (components) than the gas-only variant. The difference in price is far less than you wrote. I've got a 2021, and it was around $1,500 more over the gas-only Limited model. We've made up that $1,500 quickly in gas savings.

My 12 year old truck has more power and better acceleration than your hybrid. If you think your Rav4 is a performance car you should visit BMW.

If you got one for $1500 more you did well. Thats not usual.

 

[Rand]

My '18 Forester is 4.9 0-60.

Not even close to sub 5 seconds. 0-60

 

[OVERKILL]

No, hybrids offer LESS points of failure, because less moving parts. Hybrids are not known for reputation for failure...it happens but it is very rare.

That completely depends on the type of hybrid. Mazda's hybrid has an electric motor in place of the torque converter, that's not less points of failure.