Hybrid owners not re-buying
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Originally Posted By: strongt
What they need to do is put a diesel engine in a Prius. Then you would have the best of both worlds. I've always wondered why don't.
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
What they need to do is put a diesel engine in a Prius. Then you would have the best of both worlds. I've always wondered why don't.
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
Good point about the Prius. What about a car like the Volt then ? It runs the ICE once the battery is drained to supply power to the traction motor and for added power when needed.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
Good point about the Prius. What about a car like the Volt then ? It runs the ICE once the battery is drained to supply power to the traction motor and for added power when needed.
Well I guess you can get a diesel hybrid in Europe if you have money to spend:
2013 Volvo V60 Diesel-Hybrid
2013 Volvo V60 Diesel-Hybrid
Isn't the smart car a diesel in Europe and it's not allowed in the US market?
Going on sketchy memory, never researched it. Still...
Going on sketchy memory, never researched it. Still...
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Isn't the smart car a diesel in Europe and it's not allowed in the US market?
Going on sketchy memory, never researched it. Still...
Yep, the Smart Car has a little 0.8L inline-three diesel in Europe. Its the smallest automotive diesel engine available.
Isn't the smart car a diesel in Europe and it's not allowed in the US market?
Going on sketchy memory, never researched it. Still...
Yep, the Smart Car has a little 0.8L inline-three diesel in Europe. Its the smallest automotive diesel engine available.
Originally Posted By: strongt
What about a car like the Volt then ? It runs the ICE once the battery is drained to supply power to the traction motor and for added power when needed.
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
What about a car like the Volt then ? It runs the ICE once the battery is drained to supply power to the traction motor and for added power when needed.
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
I was meaning putting a diesel in the Volt instead of the petro engine that's in there now. The way the Volt is setup, why wouldn't a diesel be a better choice in that application which is different from the setup thats in the Prius drivetrain.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
I'm not sure why you would guess that.
If a diesel is running and it's more efficient when running, it should be more efficient.
Lubing the turbo in engine off periods would take some thinking, but a thermos of warm coolant in the petrol version shows that they aren't beyond staying in the square.
Anyway, the line between the operating regime of "gas" and diesel is fast closing. In 5 years it will be hard to tell the difference other than what fuel you put in the tank.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Diesels engine need to be driven long distances in order to be most efficient. This would not be appropriate for the average Prius driver.
Why's that ?
I am going to guess that most Prius drivers do not have a long enough commute where the diesel engine will be running long enough for it to reach its point of peak efficiency?
I'm not sure why you would guess that.
If a diesel is running and it's more efficient when running, it should be more efficient.
Lubing the turbo in engine off periods would take some thinking, but a thermos of warm coolant in the petrol version shows that they aren't beyond staying in the square.
Anyway, the line between the operating regime of "gas" and diesel is fast closing. In 5 years it will be hard to tell the difference other than what fuel you put in the tank.
Diesels are coming, they already have them nice and clean, getting better every year or two.
The warming up thing is NOT the problem right now (that's a simple engineering issue), it's the expenses. They cost more. Once they get to the same price as an equivalent gasoline engine they'll sell better.
The warming up thing is NOT the problem right now (that's a simple engineering issue), it's the expenses. They cost more. Once they get to the same price as an equivalent gasoline engine they'll sell better.
Originally Posted By: strongt
I was meaning putting a diesel in the Volt instead of the petro engine that's in there now. The way the Volt is setup, why wouldn't a diesel be a better choice in that application which is different from the setup thats in the Prius drivetrain.
My guess would be added cost and weight of the diesel. If you use the Volt as intended, there would be little use of the engine. I would not buy Volt for long trips, as its MPG is poor compared to Prius or a diesel car.
I was meaning putting a diesel in the Volt instead of the petro engine that's in there now. The way the Volt is setup, why wouldn't a diesel be a better choice in that application which is different from the setup thats in the Prius drivetrain.
My guess would be added cost and weight of the diesel. If you use the Volt as intended, there would be little use of the engine. I would not buy Volt for long trips, as its MPG is poor compared to Prius or a diesel car.
Shannon,
Atkinson gas engine has efficiency almost comparable to diesel, so there is no point of putting in a heavier, noisier ICE in a small hybrid.
Atkinson gas engine has efficiency almost comparable to diesel, so there is no point of putting in a heavier, noisier ICE in a small hybrid.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Lubing the turbo in engine off periods would take some thinking, but a thermos of warm coolant in the petrol version shows that they aren't beyond staying in the square.
Anyway, the line between the operating regime of "gas" and diesel is fast closing. In 5 years it will be hard to tell the difference other than what fuel you put in the tank.
GM and Ford are pursuing that strategy with their present-generation turbo motors. Based on the oil analyses I've seen of the 1.4T Ecotecs, it appears to be working well. Also, lots of these engines are quickly racking up lots of miles, so durability will quickly be established.
10 years ago getting 40 mpg out of a car practically required a hybrid. Now there are many non-hybrid cars that are capable of blowing 40 mpg out of the water in highway driving, and with careful city driving. Progress, comrades!
Lubing the turbo in engine off periods would take some thinking, but a thermos of warm coolant in the petrol version shows that they aren't beyond staying in the square.
Anyway, the line between the operating regime of "gas" and diesel is fast closing. In 5 years it will be hard to tell the difference other than what fuel you put in the tank.
GM and Ford are pursuing that strategy with their present-generation turbo motors. Based on the oil analyses I've seen of the 1.4T Ecotecs, it appears to be working well. Also, lots of these engines are quickly racking up lots of miles, so durability will quickly be established.
10 years ago getting 40 mpg out of a car practically required a hybrid. Now there are many non-hybrid cars that are capable of blowing 40 mpg out of the water in highway driving, and with careful city driving. Progress, comrades!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Diesels are coming, they already have them nice and clean, getting better every year or two.
The warming up thing is NOT the problem right now (that's a simple engineering issue), it's the expenses. They cost more. Once they get to the same price as an equivalent gasoline engine they'll sell better.
Actually, the problem is that they are getting MORE expensive. The precision injection parts, the gargantuan injection pressures (35,000+psi), the emission stuff that has them dumping raw fuel into the exhaust. I wouldn't own a post-2007 diesel if you gave it to me.
Diesels are coming, they already have them nice and clean, getting better every year or two.
The warming up thing is NOT the problem right now (that's a simple engineering issue), it's the expenses. They cost more. Once they get to the same price as an equivalent gasoline engine they'll sell better.
Actually, the problem is that they are getting MORE expensive. The precision injection parts, the gargantuan injection pressures (35,000+psi), the emission stuff that has them dumping raw fuel into the exhaust. I wouldn't own a post-2007 diesel if you gave it to me.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Carting around two drive trains is sloppy engineering. They are simply a stepping stone until batteries can be improved, and at that not a very good one.
If you took say a Prius, took out the hybrid nonsense and stuck a little 4 banger diesel in it, that meets Euro emissions not ours...you would get the same mileage without all the fuss and complexity. Plus I bet the car would drive a lot better since its lighter.
So why bother with them?
You are very ignorant how prius works. The electric motors are how the "transmission" works and it not a "second drivetrain".
Diesel itself would never match city MPG of Prius due to the fact that hybrid uses the ICE part of the time and especially the pulse and glide driving.
Also you are ignorant of the fact that Atkinson gasoline engine has efficiency close to that of diesel.
My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.
Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Carting around two drive trains is sloppy engineering. They are simply a stepping stone until batteries can be improved, and at that not a very good one.
If you took say a Prius, took out the hybrid nonsense and stuck a little 4 banger diesel in it, that meets Euro emissions not ours...you would get the same mileage without all the fuss and complexity. Plus I bet the car would drive a lot better since its lighter.
So why bother with them?
You are very ignorant how prius works. The electric motors are how the "transmission" works and it not a "second drivetrain".
Diesel itself would never match city MPG of Prius due to the fact that hybrid uses the ICE part of the time and especially the pulse and glide driving.
Also you are ignorant of the fact that Atkinson gasoline engine has efficiency close to that of diesel.
My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.
Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
Hi, I don't know enough about the prius and regen; are you saying that the prismatic NiMH batteries in the prius don't charge through regen? 'cos they do in the Insight... 99.5 percent of my indicated battery charging is exclusively through regen.
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
Hi, I don't know enough about the prius and regen; are you saying that the prismatic NiMH batteries in the prius don't charge through regen? 'cos they do in the Insight... 99.5 percent of my indicated battery charging is exclusively through regen.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
Hi, I don't know enough about the prius and regen; are you saying that the prismatic NiMH batteries in the prius don't charge through regen? 'cos they do in the Insight... 99.5 percent of my indicated battery charging is exclusively through regen.
They do charge, but my understanding is that on the PIP you can gain some amount of electric range via regen braking. Someone please correct me if Im wrong....
Originally Posted By: The Critic
They already have it: it's called the Prius plug-in. It appears that even when not plugged in, the Prius Plug-in (PIP) delivers significantly better fuel economy than its sibling due to the lithium battery being able to charge from regen.
Hi, I don't know enough about the prius and regen; are you saying that the prismatic NiMH batteries in the prius don't charge through regen? 'cos they do in the Insight... 99.5 percent of my indicated battery charging is exclusively through regen.
They do charge, but my understanding is that on the PIP you can gain some amount of electric range via regen braking. Someone please correct me if Im wrong....
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.
Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.
It sounds like your friend does not have the proper LRR tires on their Prius. I've seen this affect the fuel economy by more than 10% depending on the conditions.
My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.
Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.
It sounds like your friend does not have the proper LRR tires on their Prius. I've seen this affect the fuel economy by more than 10% depending on the conditions.
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