Hundreds march at McDonald's HQ over low wages

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: grampi



...Would you prefer the words "difference" and "abuse"? What words would you use that sound more "neutral?" ...


I wouldn't use those words at all because they don't describe the reality of salary's and compensation according to one's abilities and responsibilities.



Everyone is worth more than minimum wage, no matter what they do, and no one is worth millions a year, no matter what they do...


And who is to determine that? You, some government bureaucrat, some Wage and Price controller, W&P Czar? Wage and Price control worked well for Nixon didn't it?

You conveniently left out incentive.

Without an incentive to do better, to improve one's education, to move up, all we would have is a large group of dead beats and welfare groupies.

Oh wait, we already have that don't we, and how is that working out for the country at large?



So you believe that if all this country had was a middle class and an upper class that no one in the middle class would aspire to become upper class? That's ridiculous...

 

[Trav]

I think everyone strives for more money und upward mobility unless they are confirmed welfare case. In MA there are third generation welfare cases so they just want a free ride.

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I do find it hard to believe that a CEO is worth 10's of millions, it seems to me that you could hire a whole team of bright individuals for a fraction of that, with far more capability for evidence based decision making than one guy... Sure you still need to get a PR/figurehead person, but I imagine $300-500k still gets someone that's quite capable.


CEO's and their buddies do overpay themselves. Plenty of studies on that including simply looking at comparisons across the world.

But the bigger issue is that there are plenty of ineffective CEOs and there does not seem to be any consequence for failure. Again, it's all about the buddy network.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I think everyone strives for more money und upward mobility unless they are confirmed welfare case. In MA there are third generation welfare cases so they just want a free ride.

Well if minimum wage paid more than welfare, there would be some who would decide to go to work for the extra money. I'm sure many people on welfare would rather get out of subsidized housing if they could afford it. Most people wouldn't live there if they had any other option I'm sure.
Some branch of government should fund a $15 min wage trial, in a small remote city and see what happens.
The Manitoba government ran a much more extreme trial in the 70's, where everyone was guaranteed a living income wether they worked at all. Any extra $1 they made deducted .50 off the guaranteed income. In summary, most people kept working, and the greatest benefits seemed to be less healthcare costs, and more kids finished high school.
http://public.econ.duke.edu/~erw/197/forget-cea (2).pdf

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: grampi


...So you believe that if all this country had was a middle class and an upper class that no one in the middle class would aspire to become upper class? That's ridiculous...


I never said that and now you are going into the "class warfare" region, which is quite typical of the "digressives" in our midst, I.E., those on the left.

I think the choice is:

1.)You either have the drive to make something of yourself through personal responsibility and incentive to move yourself up the ladder, or

2.) you have convinced yourself, via leftist propaganda, that you deserve something you have never worked for nor deserve.

 

[Mr Nice]

How difficult would it be for employees at a fast food restaurant to try to unionize ?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Benito


...But the bigger issue is that there are plenty of ineffective CEOs and there does not seem to be any consequence for failure. Again, it's all about the buddy network...


So says the Union bosses who make 10 to 20 times what their "members" make.

There is a consequence to failure. The Board of Directors will put someone else in that position who can move the company forward.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
How difficult would it be for employees at a fast food restaurant to try to unionize ?


Very... The political environment is anti-union. These workers do not have the resources to organize such a movement. The unions themselves are weak and their primary goal at this point is mere survival, not expansion.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: grampi


Everyone is worth more than minimum wage, no matter what they do, and no one is worth millions a year, no matter what they do...
Go out tomorrow and gather up some of the $15 or bust protesters and have them do some work around your house for a few months and report back if they were worth paying $15/hr. Don't forget to add in social security etc.

 

[BRZED]

How is this an issue? Anyone who does not support minimum or living wages should stop perusing all and any services that rely on the work of low wage earners. That's your choice and the best way to vote on the issue. Or don't you want businesses that build on cheap labor to fail? Do you see a moral or a financial dilemma? Let's assume all fast food businesses have ceased to exist. Instead of picking up lunch at the drive-thru, with the money you have saved you can now hire a personal sandwich maker for one hour a day. After lunch, take the family to the strawberry fields, planted by chain gangs, to pick dessert in the fresh air. We'll all be better off for it.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: BRZED
How is this an issue? Anyone who does not support minimum or living wages should stop perusing all and any services that rely on the work of low wage earners. That's your choice and the best way to vote on the issue. Or don't you want businesses that build on cheap labor to fail? Do you see a moral or a financial dilemma? Let's assume all fast food businesses have ceased to exist. Instead of picking up lunch at the drive-thru, with the money you have saved you can now hire a personal sandwich maker for one hour a day. After lunch, take the family to the strawberry fields, planted by chain gangs, to pick dessert in the fresh air. We'll all be better off for it.
Why is it my fault that some people have zero drive or skills? The world needs low skilled folk anyway. No one has to be one of them. That's a choice. Every fast food restaurant has a sign up looking for managers. And a full staff of workers complaining about pay but not wanting to take on any more training or responsibilities.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I do find it hard to believe that a CEO is worth 10's of millions, it seems to me that you could hire a whole team of bright individuals for a fraction of that, with far more capability for evidence based decision making than one guy... Sure you still need to get a PR/figurehead person, but I imagine $300-500k still gets someone that's quite capable.


CEO's and their buddies do overpay themselves. Plenty of studies on that including simply looking at comparisons across the world.

But the bigger issue is that there are plenty of ineffective CEOs and there does not seem to be any consequence for failure. Again, it's all about the buddy network.


They hire each other with obscene compensation packages and then when they run the company into the ground they walk away with a golden parachute. Look at what Carly did to HP - she walked away with $40 million and the company's stock jumped when they announced her firing.

No one can argue she brought $40 million in value to the company.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: grampi


Everyone is worth more than minimum wage, no matter what they do, and no one is worth millions a year, no matter what they do...
Go out tomorrow and gather up some of the $15 or bust protesters and have them do some work around your house for a few months and report back if they were worth paying $15/hr. Don't forget to add in social security etc.


I agree with most things gramps says, but this one is way over the top. This is about as bad as that one guy saying if you have a business, you didnt build that..

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: BRZED
How is this an issue? Anyone who does not support minimum or living wages should stop perusing all and any services that rely on the work of low wage earners. That's your choice and the best way to vote on the issue. Or don't you want businesses that build on cheap labor to fail? Do you see a moral or a financial dilemma? Let's assume all fast food businesses have ceased to exist. Instead of picking up lunch at the drive-thru, with the money you have saved you can now hire a personal sandwich maker for one hour a day. After lunch, take the family to the strawberry fields, planted by chain gangs, to pick dessert in the fresh air. We'll all be better off for it.
Why is it my fault that some people have zero drive or skills? The world needs low skilled folk anyway. No one has to be one of them. That's a choice. Every fast food restaurant has a sign up looking for managers. And a full staff of workers complaining about pay but not wanting to take on any more training or responsibilities.


You just pointed very honestly out that "The world needs low skilled folk anyway." That hypothesis is maybe fiscally wise, but isn't it morally rotten? What constitutes "the world" by your measure? Is it the majority of people, or is it the people of means? Let's say all unskilled and low-skill workers elevate themselves through education, hard work and available opportunities. Going by your rule,"The world needs low skilled folk anyway," where do you get these people now? Who will make and serve you your burger, fries and Coke now?

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Benito


...But the bigger issue is that there are plenty of ineffective CEOs and there does not seem to be any consequence for failure. Again, it's all about the buddy network...


So says the Union bosses who make 10 to 20 times what their "members" make.

There is a consequence to failure. The Board of Directors will put someone else in that position who can move the company forward.


Maybe the union bosses do say that, but on the other hand, not all companies with poorly performing CEO's are unionized.

Carl Icahn is pretty sure there is a problem.

Billionaire investor Carl Icahn places the blame for much of the recent corporate carnage squarely on the shoulders of the companies' boards of directors, which are supposed to keep an eye on the bottom line for the shareholders.

"The trouble with the country is that we don't have accountability. The boards in this country are not doing the job, and that's why you have the trouble on Wall Street," Icahn told ABC News' John Stossel.

Icahn, 74, has been called a corporate raider, renegade capitalist and the Superman of shareholders because he has battled entrenched corporate boards to bring greater efficiency to companies and value to shareholders.

Icahn recently sat down with Stossel to discuss a system that richly rewards CEOs while their companies fail.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=6610974

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Icahn faults the boards more than the CEOs of troubled financial companies because the boards ignored the red flags raised over mortgage-backed security risks.


ABC news, the bastion of free market capitalism and Constitutional authority...not.

And where were these red flags over mortgage-backed security risks, a risk created by our own government in order to be politically correct. I.E, forcing mortgage companies into making loans to unqualified, high risk people.

In regards to CEO "separation" packages, this is usually a contract between the company and the CEO.

 

[2oldtommy]

Where is it in the Constitution that you are to receive the pay of a rock star for menial work? Does the system REQUIRE that everyone be compensated according to their age --- or good looks or whatever? No-- this is not socialism -- you are compensated based on your knowledge and abilities and the APPLICATION of those abilities.

If you want socialism -- go live in France or Greece, But don't tell me what you are worth without telling me your education, work experience and willingness to take on new assignments where ever you are employed. FWIW

Oldtommy

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
...No-- this is not socialism -- you are compensated based on your knowledge and abilities and the APPLICATION of those abilities.

If you want socialism -- go live in France or Greece, But don't tell me what you are worth without telling me your education, work experience and willingness to take on new assignments where ever you are employed. FWIW

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: BRZED


You just pointed very honestly out that "The world needs low skilled folk anyway." That hypothesis is maybe fiscally wise, but isn't it morally rotten? What constitutes "the world" by your measure? Is it the majority of people, or is it the people of means? Let's say all unskilled and low-skill workers elevate themselves through education, hard work and available opportunities. Going by your rule,"The world needs low skilled folk anyway," where do you get these people now? Who will make and serve you your burger, fries and Coke now?
Stay in the real world and away from your utopia. Always going to be low skilled workers.

What's morally rotten is creating and expanding a victim class. I've worked for min wage. My wife worked for min wage. We moved on, because we didn't listen to some politician/activist/special interest telling us to stay in a [censored] job and just demand a couple more $$. If you're flipping burgers you're always going to be dirt poor. If min wage is $20 it simply means the cost of living will be much higher. You're spinning your wheels.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Every fast food restaurant has a sign up looking for managers. And a full staff of workers complaining about pay but not wanting to take on any more training or responsibilities.


If you go in there without management experience they'll make you a P/T burger flipper. It's a ruse. If you do "luck out" and become "shift leader" you get to work 60+ hours for $455 a week. They'll promise they'll get you down to 40-45 hours "as soon as they fill the open positions" which never happens. Or, once it does, they'll make it YOUR TASK to get payroll numbers more in line by shaving hours and covering that position yourself.