HTHS Viscosity questions

Pennzoil motor oil
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


The AN's have much lower VI's than the PAO bases, as do most of Mobil's Esters, with only the really low-visc A-series (A32, A34, A41, A51) esters having VI's around and above the 140 range.


Sorry, what's AN ?
Some sort of base stock from context

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Thanks for that discussion guys. I was more than usually interested after seeing the specs and tests of, and being impressed by, the Penrite racing oil a few days ago. Even after use it was spot on where it started in terms of its viscosity datapoints and I don't think I had ever seen such mad shear stability before.


I've always wondered if oils like the Penrite 10-Tenths Racing 5W30, 10W40, 15W50 contain any VII's at all. They all have a VI around 165 which is not too high. The non-Racing 10-Tenths Premium 0W40 and 5W50 both have a VI around 185. So couldn't the Penrite Racing line be close to a mono-grade synthetic ?
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


The AN's have much lower VI's than the PAO bases, as do most of Mobil's Esters, with only the really low-visc A-series (A32, A34, A41, A51) esters having VI's around and above the 140 range.


Sorry, what's AN ?
Some sort of base stock from context

Thanks


http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Chem-E...roductsservices

Quote:
Available in high- and low-viscosity grades, Synesstic AN (Alkylated Naphthalene) base stocks are well suited for lubricants in a variety of automotive and industrial applications. Lubricants formulated with Synesstic AN can be more stable and higher performing.
Synesstic AN is particularly suited for use as a base stock in synthetic lubricant applications that require high stability under extreme operating conditions.
Performance benefits include:
Increased thermal and oxidative stability
Increased hydrolytic stability
Good additive solvency
Seal compatibility
The Synesstic Alkylated Naphthalene (AN) base stocks product line is available for use as lubricant base stocks with incidental food contact. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the Food Contact Notification filings, FCN 915 and 899, associated with the two Synesstic AN base stock fluids grades 5 cSt and 12 cSt respectively. In addition, Synesstic AN base stock fluids are HX-1 National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) registered.
 
Reading OverKill's post again, it sound like a VI of 165 is still on the high side for a mono-grade.

Still they say the Penrite Racing is 100% shear stable.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SR5
Reading OverKill's post again, it sound like a VI of 165 is still on the high side for a mono-grade.

Still they say the Penrite Racing is 100% shear stable.


You can blend a 5w30 with one of the Mobil PAO bases using no VII's. Yes, it could be branded as an SAE 30 too due to the lack of VII's.
 
This whole thing getting below 20 weights is mind boggling to me. I recognize that lighter oils create less resistance in pumping and engine movement, but [censored] some of those numbers may as well be a bottle of deerpark water (ow-8?? holy ****).

I have used 5w20 and 5w30 in my RAM 3.6L and I can't tell a difference in function or mileage, so I am going to stick to 5W30 for that little extra oil film, using group III oils, even considering a blend like Penn Gold. That engine likes to get on it though seeking its power in the higher rpms.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


The AN's have much lower VI's than the PAO bases, as do most of Mobil's Esters, with only the really low-visc A-series (A32, A34, A41, A51) esters having VI's around and above the 140 range.


Sorry, what's AN ?
Some sort of base stock from context



Thanks


AN = alkylated napthalene
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SR5
I've always wondered if oils like the Penrite 10-Tenths Racing 5W30, 10W40, 15W50 contain any VII's at all. They all have a VI around 165 which is not too high. The non-Racing 10-Tenths Premium 0W40 and 5W50 both have a VI around 185. So couldn't the Penrite Racing line be close to a mono-grade synthetic ?


Nope, they've got VIIs in them.

I've spent some time with their tech people on the phoine, and they confirmed that they are VIIed, but a "shear stable" VII.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Nope, they've got VIIs in them.


Drat !!

Thanks for asking.

You didn't happen to ask about their Noack? Or HTHS values?
Probably a bit too specific a question for them. But you have answered one of my big questions about if they have VII's. A small amount of high quality stable VII makes sense.

I like the Penrite racing oils and always happy to learn more about them.

Thanks Again
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
You didn't happen to ask about their Noack? Or HTHS values?


Yep,
I got HTHS off them...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3464208/Re:_Penrite_Racing_PDS_now_giv#Post3464208

the 0W20 is really a 16
5W30 - 3.34
10W40 - 4.49
crazy2.gif
crazy2.gif
crazy2.gif
 
Good work Shannow !! I knew you were the man for the job.

Look at that 10W40. Wow!! That is high, I ran it in my shared sump motorcycle and I never felt it shear out and give bad gear changes. The Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 I ran the oil change before couldn't go the distance and I changed it early. It was only 3.6 for HTHS. But I suspect bike gear change quality has more to do with Vis 100C than HTHS.

That post you gave above is very interesting. The HTHS shears at a much slower rate than the Vis 100C. This makes sense as for most regular oils, the gear change went bad way before the OCI was up. The manufacturers always said the oil still protected to the end of the OCI, even if the gear change went bad. They were effectively confirming what you were saying above about how the HTHS stays in grade longer than the Vis 100C.
 
SR5, google book links are notorious for failing, but here is the paper.

Alexander on Change of Engine Oil Viscosity in Use

Describes exactly what we saw with the early Mobil 1 0W40 with shear thinning and oxidative thickening, and that there's a strong difference between the mechanical shearing tests and actual performance...

I think in Motorcycles the mechanical shearing effect is greater than the oxidative thickening
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Thanks for that discussion guys. I was more than usually interested after seeing the specs and tests of, and being impressed by, the Penrite racing oil a few days ago. Even after use it was spot on where it started in terms of its viscosity datapoints and I don't think I had ever seen such mad shear stability before.


DF, do you have a link to these tests?
On BITOG or Penrite web site?

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
SR5, google book links are notorious for failing, but here is the paper.

Alexander on Change of Engine Oil Viscosity in Use

Describes exactly what we saw with the early Mobil 1 0W40 with shear thinning and oxidative thickening, and that there's a strong difference between the mechanical shearing tests and actual performance...

I think in Motorcycles the mechanical shearing effect is greater than the oxidative thickening


Thanks for the link Shannow
 
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