HT/HS????
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I have not seen any evidence that leads me to believe this is true. In fairness, nor have I seen any evidence that leads me to believe it's not true. In the Motorcycle UOA section you can find a few people have used 0W-30 GC in their machines successfully, including myself.
Now, that being said, most people do tend to put oils of higher HT/HS in their motorcycles compared to their cars. Most V-twin owners run 20W-50 and almost everyone else runs some sort of xW-40. Off the top of my head, Amsoil is the only manufacturer I know who even makes a motorcycle specific oil lighter than xW-40.
Now, that being said, most people do tend to put oils of higher HT/HS in their motorcycles compared to their cars. Most V-twin owners run 20W-50 and almost everyone else runs some sort of xW-40. Off the top of my head, Amsoil is the only manufacturer I know who even makes a motorcycle specific oil lighter than xW-40.
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Originally Posted By: nicrfe1370
I have not seen any evidence that leads me to believe this is true. In fairness, nor have I seen any evidence that leads me to believe it's not true. In the Motorcycle UOA section you can find a few people have used 0W-30 GC in their machines successfully, including myself.
Now, that being said, most people do tend to put oils of higher HT/HS in their motorcycles compared to their cars. Most V-twin owners run 20W-50 and almost everyone else runs some sort of xW-40. Off the top of my head, Amsoil is the only manufacturer I know who even makes a motorcycle specific oil lighter than xW-40.
Well, I should have said....Are oils with high HT/HS more important for motorcycles that share the lubrication with their tranny?
Certainly, I understand bikes like a Goldwing, etc. using the Xw30, because the oil isn't in the transmission getting sheared away at the speed of sound.
I have not seen any evidence that leads me to believe this is true. In fairness, nor have I seen any evidence that leads me to believe it's not true. In the Motorcycle UOA section you can find a few people have used 0W-30 GC in their machines successfully, including myself.
Now, that being said, most people do tend to put oils of higher HT/HS in their motorcycles compared to their cars. Most V-twin owners run 20W-50 and almost everyone else runs some sort of xW-40. Off the top of my head, Amsoil is the only manufacturer I know who even makes a motorcycle specific oil lighter than xW-40.
Well, I should have said....Are oils with high HT/HS more important for motorcycles that share the lubrication with their tranny?
Certainly, I understand bikes like a Goldwing, etc. using the Xw30, because the oil isn't in the transmission getting sheared away at the speed of sound.
You will notice all of the better motorcycle specific oils have a higher HT/HS. I consider HT/HS to be the #1 factor in selecting an oil for my Harley because it is so hard on oil. The very best oils are all around a 5.5-6.1.
MC engines beat oil up pretty bed because if they are air cooled they rely on the oil to cool the engine. If they have a shared sump the trans chews the oil all day long. If they are partially water cooled with a shared sump like some Kawasaki engines they do both.
MC engines beat oil up pretty bed because if they are air cooled they rely on the oil to cool the engine. If they have a shared sump the trans chews the oil all day long. If they are partially water cooled with a shared sump like some Kawasaki engines they do both.
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Honda has a 5w30 MC oil. It's synthetic and not cheap.
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Well, I should have said....Are oils with high HT/HS more important for motorcycles that share the lubrication with their tranny?
I know that one of the test criteria for JASO-MA is HT/HS. I know that JASO-MA also concerns itself with the friction characteristics of the oil, which I think is aimed at protecting against clutch slippage. So the designers of JASO-MA ... whatever one may think of that standard ... thought HT/HS was important enough to consider it.
Whether motorcycles have an increased need for HT/HS over other applications, I'm not sure. Maybe?
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Certainly, I understand bikes like a Goldwing, etc. using the Xw30, because the oil isn't in the transmission getting sheared away at the speed of sound.
Actually, a Goldwing has a shared sump design. The engine oil is used by the transmission. But it's a relatively low-RPM bike with water cooling, so the stress isn't as much (I would imagine) as an air-cooled crotch rocket that turns 10K RPM.
I use Rotella 15w40 CJ-4 in my Wing. Its HT/HS meets JASO-MA minimums. I've had good luck with it.
Well, I should have said....Are oils with high HT/HS more important for motorcycles that share the lubrication with their tranny?
I know that one of the test criteria for JASO-MA is HT/HS. I know that JASO-MA also concerns itself with the friction characteristics of the oil, which I think is aimed at protecting against clutch slippage. So the designers of JASO-MA ... whatever one may think of that standard ... thought HT/HS was important enough to consider it.
Whether motorcycles have an increased need for HT/HS over other applications, I'm not sure. Maybe?
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Certainly, I understand bikes like a Goldwing, etc. using the Xw30, because the oil isn't in the transmission getting sheared away at the speed of sound.
Actually, a Goldwing has a shared sump design. The engine oil is used by the transmission. But it's a relatively low-RPM bike with water cooling, so the stress isn't as much (I would imagine) as an air-cooled crotch rocket that turns 10K RPM.
I use Rotella 15w40 CJ-4 in my Wing. Its HT/HS meets JASO-MA minimums. I've had good luck with it.
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
I thought the Goldwing, as with other such bikes....had separate lube systems.
With a top-of-the-line bike like the Goldwing, you'd think Honda would have designed it that way. But it sure enough is a shared-sump. In fact, I think all Honda motorcycles are shared sump design.
I'm wondering why they would do it that way:
I wish I had an oil temp probe into my Wing ... I've long wondered what temp the oil reaches in the Tucson summer.
I thought the Goldwing, as with other such bikes....had separate lube systems.
With a top-of-the-line bike like the Goldwing, you'd think Honda would have designed it that way. But it sure enough is a shared-sump. In fact, I think all Honda motorcycles are shared sump design.
I'm wondering why they would do it that way:
- Purely cost?
- Reduced weight?
- Reduced wheelbase?
I wish I had an oil temp probe into my Wing ... I've long wondered what temp the oil reaches in the Tucson summer.
Have you considered Rotella 30w.??
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
I'm wondering why they would do it that way:
I'm wondering why they would do it that way:
- Purely cost?
- Reduced weight?
- Reduced wheelbase?
All of the above including simplicity of design & maintenance. There is just no need for seperate sumps for that MC. Fewer parts = fewer problems. Once an engine is water cooled versus using the oil to cool it the viscosity requirements change substantially. Look at the Harley Vrod...same deal.
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Combined engine and trans housing is generally more compact.
Wet clutches run cooler and seem to last longer.
Wet clutches run cooler and seem to last longer.
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