The same people would be in charge, but sitting in government offices instead of oil company offices.
How To Make Things Worse...
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Actually, fascism puts nationalism, someitmes race, some times other things, above the individual. Doesn't have to be the government that does it, but it often is.
Nuclear power accounts for about 20% of our electricity, so it's not like we've been talked out of anything. I think a major reason we haven't done more is a lot if NIMBYism, as well as lack of real planning as to where to put the waste.
Nuclear power accounts for about 20% of our electricity, so it's not like we've been talked out of anything. I think a major reason we haven't done more is a lot if NIMBYism, as well as lack of real planning as to where to put the waste.
In the unlikely(I hope!) event that the feds attempt to take over the oil industry, I assume foreign-based firms like BP/Shell/Citgo would be off limits, correct?
Also, could US based oil companies "offshore" their headquarters to another country, like other firms have done, to prevent a takeover and also reduce their tax burden?
I hope it will never come to that, but considering how ignorant and irresponsible many lawmakers on Capitol Hill are, I wouldn't hold it against any company for leaving the USA.
Also, could US based oil companies "offshore" their headquarters to another country, like other firms have done, to prevent a takeover and also reduce their tax burden?
I hope it will never come to that, but considering how ignorant and irresponsible many lawmakers on Capitol Hill are, I wouldn't hold it against any company for leaving the USA.
That's a scenario..... someone will soon whisper in her ear about the billions the feds siphon in taxes from oil companies....so the Dems will stick with the tried and true game plan....tax them until they leave!
Originally Posted By: MarkC
Actually, fascism puts nationalism, someitmes race, some times other things, above the individual. Doesn't have to be the government that does it, but it often is.
There are varied definitions of fascism and the term certainly is thrown around a lot. Especially recently. I don't think there is much doubt in true fascism the government makes decisions for and of business. Some diverse reading material here:
http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Enc/Fascism.html
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol03/no01/howard.htm
Originally Posted By: MarkC
Nuclear power accounts for about 20% of our electricity, so it's not like we've been talked out of anything. I think a major reason we haven't done more is a lot if NIMBYism, as well as lack of real planning as to where to put the waste.
Come on MarkC, you want to come off as "Mr. Intellectual", but don't take me for the dude who fell off the turnip truck. I'll just ask you; When were nearly all these nuclear plants built? And state, for a country which truly pioneered the use of fission, nearly 20% is extremely lame. We have certainly been scare mongered into a corner. Totally inexcusable what Congress and Hollywood and the Environazi powers have done to us as a country in regard to the lack of use of nuclear power. No not logically talked out of, more like bogey man scared out of it. Sure NIMBY is a factor, but read above for the reason.
Actually, fascism puts nationalism, someitmes race, some times other things, above the individual. Doesn't have to be the government that does it, but it often is.
There are varied definitions of fascism and the term certainly is thrown around a lot. Especially recently. I don't think there is much doubt in true fascism the government makes decisions for and of business. Some diverse reading material here:
http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Enc/Fascism.html
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol03/no01/howard.htm
Originally Posted By: MarkC
Nuclear power accounts for about 20% of our electricity, so it's not like we've been talked out of anything. I think a major reason we haven't done more is a lot if NIMBYism, as well as lack of real planning as to where to put the waste.
Come on MarkC, you want to come off as "Mr. Intellectual", but don't take me for the dude who fell off the turnip truck. I'll just ask you; When were nearly all these nuclear plants built? And state, for a country which truly pioneered the use of fission, nearly 20% is extremely lame. We have certainly been scare mongered into a corner. Totally inexcusable what Congress and Hollywood and the Environazi powers have done to us as a country in regard to the lack of use of nuclear power. No not logically talked out of, more like bogey man scared out of it. Sure NIMBY is a factor, but read above for the reason.
Sure we could have more nuclear power, but your insistence on blaming environmentalists for everything is total [censored].
Like any other energy source, nuclear power has it's benefits and risks. France is certainly making it work for itself pretty well.
Could it be that one reason (of probably many) the we haven't gone nuclear in a big way is that it's been easier not to so far?
A few eaarly mishaps which frightened people didn't help. Why bother when other sources have been cheap and easy, not to mention profitable so far?
By the way, why does it seem that anything you don't like is usually blamed on environmentalists, socialists, commies, or fascists ( or some vast consiracy of all of them)?
What if someone were to say...let's see, the current high oil prices are due to a conspiracy by the oil companies to force the opening of ANWR and offshore continental shelf areas to drilling and exploration? Bet you'd call [censored] on that, wouldn't you? But it's no more ridiculous than some of the stuff you imply.
So Boo!
Like any other energy source, nuclear power has it's benefits and risks. France is certainly making it work for itself pretty well.
Could it be that one reason (of probably many) the we haven't gone nuclear in a big way is that it's been easier not to so far?
A few eaarly mishaps which frightened people didn't help. Why bother when other sources have been cheap and easy, not to mention profitable so far?
By the way, why does it seem that anything you don't like is usually blamed on environmentalists, socialists, commies, or fascists ( or some vast consiracy of all of them)?
What if someone were to say...let's see, the current high oil prices are due to a conspiracy by the oil companies to force the opening of ANWR and offshore continental shelf areas to drilling and exploration? Bet you'd call [censored] on that, wouldn't you? But it's no more ridiculous than some of the stuff you imply.
So Boo!
Everybody is in favor of clean air and water, and a healthy environment. To that extent we are all environmentalists. But we need to be rational and realistic in how we deal with our energy problems.
The "environazis" Pablo refers to are real, and they have power and influence far beyond their small numbers. A good example is what happened in the state of Michigan last year. They were exploring the option of setting up windmill farms to provide clean, renewable energy for the state's growing energy needs. Some members of local environmental groups came out against wind power. Why? Two reasons: the spinning blades might kill migrating birds, and windmills just don't look "pretty"!
This proves that the extremists are opposed to ALL technologies, no matter how clean or earth-friendly. Nothing short of having us all living like the Amish will please them.
The "environazis" Pablo refers to are real, and they have power and influence far beyond their small numbers. A good example is what happened in the state of Michigan last year. They were exploring the option of setting up windmill farms to provide clean, renewable energy for the state's growing energy needs. Some members of local environmental groups came out against wind power. Why? Two reasons: the spinning blades might kill migrating birds, and windmills just don't look "pretty"!
This proves that the extremists are opposed to ALL technologies, no matter how clean or earth-friendly. Nothing short of having us all living like the Amish will please them.
A small history lesson:
In the early 19th century, NYC had a pond that was called the Collect. Folks used to fish, watch birds and have picnics on the banks of the Collect. The Collect was surrounded by tanneries and other industries, even a beer brewery. Due to the lack of environmental law, the Collect became a foul, stinking pit of waste because the surrounding industries chose to use it as a sewer. The solution was to use the soil from Bunker Hill to fill in the Collect. Sickness permeated the area, however, for years to come. This was done and now very few even know that the Collect ever existed.
Monsanto began making PCB's in 1929. The oily compounds were considered useful because they are stable, fire resistant and do not conduct electricity. For more than forty years PCBs were widely used as an insulating agent in electrical equipment, including capacitors (devices to store electricity) manufactured by GE at its plants in upstate New York. Between the 1940s and 1976 when the U.S. Congress outlawed PCB manufacture, sale and distribution, GE discharged about 1.3 million pounds of PCB's into the Hudson River. The contamination ruined a once-thriving commercial fishing industry and devastated recreational fishing, which was only opened on a "catch and release" basis in the 40-mile long upper Hudson in 1996, after being closed for two decades.
Lessons Learned:
We tend to wait to take action until the consequences of inaction become so severe that it is impossible not to take action. The government is not the panacea for all of our ills, but who else can hold industry in check? Industry has a dismal record when it comes to looking out for the welfare of its workers and the environment. Remember why unions were formed? I am not a member of a union, in fact I am in management now. I was a member of the Oil, Chemical & Atomic Workers International Union up until 2000.
Though I don't agree with most of the agenda being pushed by liberal Democrats these days, I do feel that there has to be a balance. No, we do not want to become socialist, but we do not want to become slaves to multinational corporations either. The corporations love paying $1/hour to workers in 3rd world countries, even if they have to claim ignorance when someone shines the light on the poor working conditions in those countries from time to time.
Let me make an observation here: Isn't Medicare a form of socialized medicine? Isn't the U.S. Postal Service nationalized mail delivery? What about local Law Enforcement? In effect, we are quick to slam socialism in other countries, but we have our own slant on it here at home.
In the early 19th century, NYC had a pond that was called the Collect. Folks used to fish, watch birds and have picnics on the banks of the Collect. The Collect was surrounded by tanneries and other industries, even a beer brewery. Due to the lack of environmental law, the Collect became a foul, stinking pit of waste because the surrounding industries chose to use it as a sewer. The solution was to use the soil from Bunker Hill to fill in the Collect. Sickness permeated the area, however, for years to come. This was done and now very few even know that the Collect ever existed.
Monsanto began making PCB's in 1929. The oily compounds were considered useful because they are stable, fire resistant and do not conduct electricity. For more than forty years PCBs were widely used as an insulating agent in electrical equipment, including capacitors (devices to store electricity) manufactured by GE at its plants in upstate New York. Between the 1940s and 1976 when the U.S. Congress outlawed PCB manufacture, sale and distribution, GE discharged about 1.3 million pounds of PCB's into the Hudson River. The contamination ruined a once-thriving commercial fishing industry and devastated recreational fishing, which was only opened on a "catch and release" basis in the 40-mile long upper Hudson in 1996, after being closed for two decades.
Lessons Learned:
We tend to wait to take action until the consequences of inaction become so severe that it is impossible not to take action. The government is not the panacea for all of our ills, but who else can hold industry in check? Industry has a dismal record when it comes to looking out for the welfare of its workers and the environment. Remember why unions were formed? I am not a member of a union, in fact I am in management now. I was a member of the Oil, Chemical & Atomic Workers International Union up until 2000.
Though I don't agree with most of the agenda being pushed by liberal Democrats these days, I do feel that there has to be a balance. No, we do not want to become socialist, but we do not want to become slaves to multinational corporations either. The corporations love paying $1/hour to workers in 3rd world countries, even if they have to claim ignorance when someone shines the light on the poor working conditions in those countries from time to time.
Let me make an observation here: Isn't Medicare a form of socialized medicine? Isn't the U.S. Postal Service nationalized mail delivery? What about local Law Enforcement? In effect, we are quick to slam socialism in other countries, but we have our own slant on it here at home.
For those interested in learning more about the Collect pond:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collect_Pond_(Manhattan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collect_Pond_(Manhattan)
Ignorance swings both ways. Because man was ignorant about something in the past, doesn't make him all knowing in the future, but we can learn from our mistakes - not halt all progress.
As for economic/government theory - I don't think many advocate unchecked polluting industries - and the market seems to do quite fine when checks and balances are in place. Government acting as an arm for the people is something that we seem to love here, but people get carried away with it - the larger problem currently is NOT pollution but who is checking this government??? Even some of the worst pollution can break down, and ecosystems can come back much more quickly than doom sayers predict...but how long before we can get out from the shackles we seem so eager to get into?
Laws controlling dumping/air pollution are a good thing if they are for the good of all people, but they are a far cry from nationalizing industries.
Medicare, USPS, SS, Law "enforcement" are pretty poor examples of things done right under socialism or any other -ism.
As for economic/government theory - I don't think many advocate unchecked polluting industries - and the market seems to do quite fine when checks and balances are in place. Government acting as an arm for the people is something that we seem to love here, but people get carried away with it - the larger problem currently is NOT pollution but who is checking this government??? Even some of the worst pollution can break down, and ecosystems can come back much more quickly than doom sayers predict...but how long before we can get out from the shackles we seem so eager to get into?
Laws controlling dumping/air pollution are a good thing if they are for the good of all people, but they are a far cry from nationalizing industries.
Medicare, USPS, SS, Law "enforcement" are pretty poor examples of things done right under socialism or any other -ism.
Another call (from the usual party) for government control of the oil industry:
Response To Request For More Drilling, 06-18-2008
"We (the government) should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market."
Fools can't seem to understand that Marxism won't solve our energy problems, but will make them FAR worse.
Response To Request For More Drilling, 06-18-2008
"We (the government) should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market."
Fools can't seem to understand that Marxism won't solve our energy problems, but will make them FAR worse.
Pollution comes when private property rights are not protected.
Is that the only time?
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Mostly. If Baltimore is spewing forth air pollution into south Jersey ..private property rights are being violated. You're dumping your trash on others property.
The other is when someone secretly pollutes their own land, then abandons it.
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Originally Posted By: oilyriser
The other is when someone secretly pollutes their own land, then abandons it.
That was a common practice before the liabilities became apparent ..even after they became apparent.
You simply rented a piece of properly zoned turf, got a permit to store drums ...fill said rented property with drums (full of "stuff") ..and then went out of business.
Another one was to rent a trailer. Fill with drums ..abandon.
The other is when someone secretly pollutes their own land, then abandons it.
That was a common practice before the liabilities became apparent ..even after they became apparent.
You simply rented a piece of properly zoned turf, got a permit to store drums ...fill said rented property with drums (full of "stuff") ..and then went out of business.
Another one was to rent a trailer. Fill with drums ..abandon.
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