how to get over a stick shift

[ClutchDisc]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I don't mind FWD though, although I'd like to see a small compact car with it that was affordable.
How about the 2012 Nissan Versa? In the base trim level you get manual transmission, manual windows, manual door locks and a base price of about $11,000. Very affordable, basic, and no touch screen!

 

[TallPaul]

Yes, nice and simple, like this:

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: ClutchDisc
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I don't mind FWD though, although I'd like to see a small compact car with it that was affordable.
How about the 2012 Nissan Versa? In the base trim level you get manual transmission, manual windows, manual door locks and a base price of about $11,000. Very affordable, basic, and no touch screen!


I mistakenly typed FWD when I meant RearWD....

I'd love to see a new small car with RWD, with a manual trans that was affordable.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

I mistakenly typed FWD when I meant RearWD....

I'd love to see a new small car with RWD, with a manual trans that was affordable.
Ah yes, but i would be tempted to by that Versa just because compared to other new cars it's a steal. Supposed to be same size as a Focus and those are at least $18,000.

The acronym FWD is not good as it also could mean Four Wheel Drive. How about FWP for Front Wheel Pull, since that is actually what is happening.

 

[SteveSRT8]

AWD is a better acronym for 4 wheel drive, as it is widely known and difficult to misinterpret. Plus some trucks have more than 4 wheels!

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
AWD is a better acronym for 4 wheel drive, as it is widely known and difficult to misinterpret. Plus some trucks have more than 4 wheels!


Except there is a difference between AWD and 4WD. The hard core guys will tell you that if you don't have to get out and lock the hubs manually, it ain't true 4WD.

Also, on my Mountaineer (2005) I am pretty sure they were offered in either AWD or 4WD, but not sure what the difference was/is.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
AWD is a better acronym for 4 wheel drive, as it is widely known and difficult to misinterpret. Plus some trucks have more than 4 wheels!


Except there is a difference between AWD and 4WD. The hard core guys will tell you that if you don't have to get out and lock the hubs manually, it ain't true 4WD.

Also, on my Mountaineer (2005) I am pretty sure they were offered in either AWD or 4WD, but not sure what the difference was/is.


You can't turn off the AWD, that was the difference.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

You can't turn off the AWD, that was the difference.

But isn't it true that the 4WD gave a 50/50 split front to rear and could not be run on dry pavement, whereas the AWD has a variable split. Also didn't the 4wd come with a low and high range gearing.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

You can't turn off the AWD, that was the difference.

But isn't it true that the 4WD gave a 50/50 split front to rear and could not be run on dry pavement, whereas the AWD has a variable split. Also didn't the 4wd come with a low and high range gearing.

Yes, that's all true. But that has nothing to do with locking hubs. My Ranger has "true 4wd" and it doesn't have (un)lockable hubs.

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
but many people typically buy a stick because it's cheaper. If it's no longer cheaper, then they'll get something else.


I strongly disagree.

Typically. People do not buy sticks because they are cheaper.

The very vast majority of people that buy sticks, buy them because they really want them.

I drove to another state to buy my VW just to get a stick I liked.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: exranger06

Yes, that's all true. But that has nothing to do with locking hubs. My Ranger has "true 4wd" and it doesn't have (un)lockable hubs.

Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

You can't turn off the AWD, that was the difference.

But isn't it true that the 4WD gave a 50/50 split front to rear and could not be run on dry pavement, whereas the AWD has a variable split. Also didn't the 4wd come with a low and high range gearing.


You could run it on dry pavement just fine. They just recommended avoiding turning sharply on dry pavement due to binding with 4x4 engaged.

That being said, anything past 1996 IIRC had 4x4 "Auto" like my Expedition, which meant it had a clutched T-case that would transfer up to 50% power to the front wheels when the rears lost traction. On these, the hubs were permanently "locked" (there was no way to unlock them) and the coupling was done with the clutch system inside the transfer case. You are always spinning the front driveshaft with this system.

IIRC, this was basically how the "AWD" system in the Explorer Limited and Eddie Bauer worked as well.

However, as you alluded, the difference between the 4x4 "auto" system and the AWD system was that the 4x4 system had the ability to lock the 50/50 split in 4HI and also included a gear-reduced 4LO, which the AWD system lacked.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.


My workplace 2006 F 250 has manually locking front hubs.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: exranger06

Yes, that's all true. But that has nothing to do with locking hubs. My Ranger has "true 4wd" and it doesn't have (un)lockable hubs.

Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.

Locking hubs are still around....my 94 Explorer has them, brand new Super Duties I think still have them. Not too common within the past 10-15 years, but still very common well into the 90s.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.


My workplace 2006 F 250 has manually locking front hubs.

Still available on heavy duty and/or special order. Not likely found on your typical late model SUV and I doubt on an F150 even.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: exranger06

Yes, that's all true. But that has nothing to do with locking hubs. My Ranger has "true 4wd" and it doesn't have (un)lockable hubs.

Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.


Actually Ford offered manual locking hubs as a factory option on the Ranger through 1997. The last Ford to have manual locking hubs was the Super Duty, and that's very recent. They may still be available with them, not sure.

The hubs simply control engagement of the front axle and were really a fuel economy feature. Ford introduced auto hubs in the 1980s, and experimented with a number of designs in the 1990s, most of which were vacuum operated. The Ranger used a vacuum hub system in '98-'99, but it was unreliable, so Ford just ditched it and went to a live axle setup where the front differential is always engaged, whether or not the truck is in 4WD. You get worse fuel economy, but its simpler and removes a failure point from the chain. There are aftermarket manual hubs available for '98-'99 Rangers, as well as a way to bypass the vacuum hubs so they are always engaged.

My Explorer actually had a vacuum disconnect on the axle itself (not at the hubs). I don't know exactly how it worked, but it involved a lot of clunking noises. It's the "box" on the axle tube...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

To me:

4WD has a locking center differential (transfer case). Putting it in 4wd on dry pavement isn't going to go well.

AWD has an open center differential and all 4 wheels can spin at different speeds. Also a bit "smarter" than just the transfer case.

My Jeep is 4WD, my parents '13 Escape is AWD. The AWD is much better in the snow

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

You can't turn off the AWD, that was the difference.

But isn't it true that the 4WD gave a 50/50 split front to rear and could not be run on dry pavement, whereas the AWD has a variable split. Also didn't the 4wd come with a low and high range gearing.

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: exranger06


You can drive a real 4x4 on dry pavement but turning radius is far wider.

Yes, that's all true. But that has nothing to do with locking hubs. My Ranger has
"true 4wd" and it doesn't have (un)lockable hubs.

Oh, I know. To get locking hubs I think you have to get something from the 1970s.


Not quite. Manually locking up the hubs is found on solid front axles,independent front suspensions will have a vacuum or electric hub lock up.
If you look I'm sure you can find manual hub lock up on today's trucks,they are used on heavy duty models since a solid front axle is primarily only found on hd model trucks.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
The very vast majority of people that buy sticks, buy them because they really want them.

Maybe.

According to askmen.com, the #1 reason why real men drive manual cars is....


...drumroll...


"Women like a guy who is good with his hands"

{removed link}

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
The very vast majority of people that buy sticks, buy them because they really want them.

Maybe.

According to askmen.com, the #1 reason why real men drive manual cars is....


...drumroll...


"Women like a guy who is good with his hands"

{removed link}





That would back up the statement. Those men definitely wanted a manual car. They didn't get stuck with one when they wanted something else due to cost or another mitigating factor.