If I want change oil filter on second oil change, I want to drain as much old oil from filter then re-install. The ADBV prevents old oil drain out of filter, is there a trick to by-passed the ADBV ?
How to drain old oil from filter with ADBV ?
- Thread starter HTSS_TR
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ok, first of all, just replace the filter ok? Someone PLEASE tell me why this site, which supposedly has some of the most intelligent people around, continues to foster and support ideas that are plain ridiculous.
besides, if you unscrew the filter, you will destroy the gasket and it will not seal properly anymore.
We would all love to end the dependance on foreign oil and reduce land waste, so instead of reusing something that is not meant to be reused, BUY a filter than can go the distance as well as the same kind of oil.
besides, if you unscrew the filter, you will destroy the gasket and it will not seal properly anymore.
We would all love to end the dependance on foreign oil and reduce land waste, so instead of reusing something that is not meant to be reused, BUY a filter than can go the distance as well as the same kind of oil.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If I want change oil filter on second oil change, I want to drain as much old oil from filter then re-install. The ADBV prevents old oil drain out of filter, is there a trick to by-passed the ADBV ?
I could me mistaken, but wouldn't all the oil drain out of the flter if you just remove it and turn it upside down?
If I want change oil filter on second oil change, I want to drain as much old oil from filter then re-install. The ADBV prevents old oil drain out of filter, is there a trick to by-passed the ADBV ?
I could me mistaken, but wouldn't all the oil drain out of the flter if you just remove it and turn it upside down?
Probably get a lot out just inverting the filter. If it has a threaded end bypass, less will come out. Can carefully prop open the antidrainback with a blund stick, like a cocktail stir stick maybe and let drain out more. Want a lot of oil out, drain fairly hot. I don't think the gasket will get ruined, but do inspect it. We had a thread on re-using gaskets you may want to check out: reusing filter gasket thread.
For Pete's sake, just replace the filter !
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
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besides, if you unscrew the filter, you will destroy the gasket and it will not seal properly anymore.
...
Did you actually have evidence that the gasket was destroyed after the filter was removed ?
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
I could me mistaken, but wouldn't all the oil drain out of the flter if you just remove it and turn it upside down?
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
The reason for re-using oil filter is Honda recommends filter change on second oil change. Leave filter untouched would leave up to 1/2 quarts old oil in filter and filter mount. By removed filter and drain all old oil out, without damaging the gasket, would remove most used oil from engine.
On my last oil change, by removed filter I would be able the drain about 10-12 ounces old oil from filter mount and filter itself, after turned filter upside down for 1 hour. But the filter still has some oil in it, my guess is it still had about 6-10 ounces.
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besides, if you unscrew the filter, you will destroy the gasket and it will not seal properly anymore.
...
Did you actually have evidence that the gasket was destroyed after the filter was removed ?
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
I could me mistaken, but wouldn't all the oil drain out of the flter if you just remove it and turn it upside down?
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
The reason for re-using oil filter is Honda recommends filter change on second oil change. Leave filter untouched would leave up to 1/2 quarts old oil in filter and filter mount. By removed filter and drain all old oil out, without damaging the gasket, would remove most used oil from engine.
On my last oil change, by removed filter I would be able the drain about 10-12 ounces old oil from filter mount and filter itself, after turned filter upside down for 1 hour. But the filter still has some oil in it, my guess is it still had about 6-10 ounces.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
ok, first of all, just replace the filter ok? Someone PLEASE tell me why this site, which supposedly has some of the most intelligent people around, continues to foster and support ideas that are plain ridiculous.
Terry Dyson IIRC confirmed that the second OCI on a filter in Hondas actually shows better numbers in the UOA than when the filter was new. Honda (not to mention Dyson) knows what they're talking about when making that recommendation.
Consider going into the filter section to understand why. Consider also cutting people some slack until you know what they/you are talking about. This is for the most part a civilized discussion board.
ok, first of all, just replace the filter ok? Someone PLEASE tell me why this site, which supposedly has some of the most intelligent people around, continues to foster and support ideas that are plain ridiculous.
Terry Dyson IIRC confirmed that the second OCI on a filter in Hondas actually shows better numbers in the UOA than when the filter was new. Honda (not to mention Dyson) knows what they're talking about when making that recommendation.
Consider going into the filter section to understand why. Consider also cutting people some slack until you know what they/you are talking about. This is for the most part a civilized discussion board.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
I agree with you. the ADBV keeps UNFILTERED oil from draining back out of the filter, there is nothing preventing the oil from draining though the media and out the center hole.
but
just change the danged filter.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
I agree with you. the ADBV keeps UNFILTERED oil from draining back out of the filter, there is nothing preventing the oil from draining though the media and out the center hole.
but
just change the danged filter.
I'm with you when the rubber hits the road. I'd change it or drop the oil and keep it on....just like honda and Terry say to do.
Messing with a used filter is just messy, let alone trying to drain it and put it back on. But discussing the theory behind it is still interesting!
Messing with a used filter is just messy, let alone trying to drain it and put it back on. But discussing the theory behind it is still interesting!
After I turned filter upside down for 1 hour, the filter still fairly heavy and my guess is that it still have several ounces in it.
I'll let it drain, upside down, overnight next time to see if most, if not all, oil drain out.
Even if I change filter every oil change, I would like to drain as much oil out of filter as possible before take it to recycle center. Just poke a hole to the ADBV and drain the oil ?
I'll let it drain, upside down, overnight next time to see if most, if not all, oil drain out.
Even if I change filter every oil change, I would like to drain as much oil out of filter as possible before take it to recycle center. Just poke a hole to the ADBV and drain the oil ?
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
After I turned filter upside down for 1 hour, the filter still fairly heavy and my guess is that it still have several ounces in it.
Heavy? It's all sludge and carbon!
After I turned filter upside down for 1 hour, the filter still fairly heavy and my guess is that it still have several ounces in it.
Heavy? It's all sludge and carbon!
No. Take an allan key and gently push the ADBV in. Then turn it upside down while still pushing the ADBV in. It will all come out. I recomend cleaning the inlet holes before reinstaliing.
Ballpoint pen tip works and won't harm it. I just did my 1st NO drain of filter oil change. A tiny filter but it took .5q less. Probally won't do it again. I still will drain and reuse filters. Some are filters are giant and I'm using dino oil in other people's and NOT getting reembursed. Yes, I drain it and reuse. They are actually lucky I even remove and drain it. Two 5k dino intervals on a cheap filter is fine. Now, if I was using expensive synth and going 10k, yeah, I'd want a clean filter to start the OCI out.
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The reason it takes longer inverted is that the top end of the filter is most saturated (my theory/opinion). It reasons that the oil takes the shortest path in and out of the filter for the majority of the flow. This would mean that the flow would just come in and exit instead of evenly dispersing the entire length and breadth of the media. The flow would naturally cascade downward ..but less and less volume would be seen at the lower depths. Otherwise, if it evenly saturated, the entire filter would be full ..while we know it's not. Even hours later ..the lower (open end) still has a static oil mass in it.
The main bearings are almost invariably lower than the filter, and are in the correct orientation for forward flow from the filter.
However, there has to be something to refill the filter if the oil drains out forwards, into the 2-3 thousandths of an inch gap, and the only something that can do it is air.
Which means that air has to flow backwards along an oil passage, and "glug" back into the filter to allow the oil to be released.
But I don't think that capillary action will allow the sorts of air volumes that we need, nor are the oil galleries wide enough to enable two phase counter flow.
Filter stays full, for any reasonable sort of maintenance duration.
However, there has to be something to refill the filter if the oil drains out forwards, into the 2-3 thousandths of an inch gap, and the only something that can do it is air.
Which means that air has to flow backwards along an oil passage, and "glug" back into the filter to allow the oil to be released.
But I don't think that capillary action will allow the sorts of air volumes that we need, nor are the oil galleries wide enough to enable two phase counter flow.
Filter stays full, for any reasonable sort of maintenance duration.
Why not just get am Amsoil UAO filter, and don't even remove it at all, for two or three oci's, maybe even put in some good synthetic, and leave it in for 10 to 15k.
I'd much rather do that then, mess with a filter removal and reinstall, thats a dirty job, guess it depends on the car type and how much time you have on your hands, if its a vertical mount were the filter screws up to the motor, then I might consider it in my dreams.
I'd much rather do that then, mess with a filter removal and reinstall, thats a dirty job, guess it depends on the car type and how much time you have on your hands, if its a vertical mount were the filter screws up to the motor, then I might consider it in my dreams.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tom slick
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
I agree with you. the ADBV keeps UNFILTERED oil from draining back out of the filter, there is nothing preventing the oil from draining though the media and out the center hole.
but
just change the danged filter.
From what I've gathered, when the media is soaked with oil, that coupled with the ADBV will create a small vacuum on the dirt side of the filter. The ADBV will pull away from the top end cap eventually and the oil will seep through into the center tube and out the outlet. When I do oil changes, I jam a sharp pointed scratch all into the ADBV so it won't seal anymore and instantly all the oil from the dirty side flows through into the center tube, and I can then drain it and throw it away.
As to trying to drain and reuse a filter, why bother? The amount of oil in the filter is a drop in the bucket compared to what's left in all the oil galleys and on top of the cylinder head/heads. Either replace it or just leave it on.
:2cents:
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
ADBV keeps oil in the filter, that is its job.
Really? Not trying to be flippant here, but why wouldn't the oil (given time) just pass through the filter media and out the threaded hole? This is after all an oil-permeable substance by design.
Anybody who's filled an oil filter before installing can observe this happening. It's why you have to re-fill the filter every few minutes until it saturates.
Am I missing something here?
I agree with you. the ADBV keeps UNFILTERED oil from draining back out of the filter, there is nothing preventing the oil from draining though the media and out the center hole.
but
just change the danged filter.
From what I've gathered, when the media is soaked with oil, that coupled with the ADBV will create a small vacuum on the dirt side of the filter. The ADBV will pull away from the top end cap eventually and the oil will seep through into the center tube and out the outlet. When I do oil changes, I jam a sharp pointed scratch all into the ADBV so it won't seal anymore and instantly all the oil from the dirty side flows through into the center tube, and I can then drain it and throw it away.
As to trying to drain and reuse a filter, why bother? The amount of oil in the filter is a drop in the bucket compared to what's left in all the oil galleys and on top of the cylinder head/heads. Either replace it or just leave it on.
:2cents:
Now I know why an older Maxima has this long pipe to put the filter over, keeps oil in almost to the top, since the base faces down and most of the oil would drain through the element and outlet hole otherwise.
I think the gasket compresses under heat too long, and ideally shouldn't be reused but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I wouldn't do that to save $5. It seems almost a game on oil and filters to try and save money, even though the amount saved is near nothing in the grand scheme of car ownwership. I think companies recommend such things to make published required maintenance look better, and don't expect the filter to be removed and drained.
I think the gasket compresses under heat too long, and ideally shouldn't be reused but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I wouldn't do that to save $5. It seems almost a game on oil and filters to try and save money, even though the amount saved is near nothing in the grand scheme of car ownwership. I think companies recommend such things to make published required maintenance look better, and don't expect the filter to be removed and drained.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
After I turned filter upside down for 1 hour, the filter still fairly heavy and my guess is that it still have several ounces in it.
I'll let it drain, upside down, overnight next time to see if most, if not all, oil drain out.
Even if I change filter every oil change, I would like to drain as much oil out of filter as possible before take it to recycle center. Just poke a hole to the ADBV and drain the oil ?
I have let them set a week or so and the oil never drained out. I punch a hole in them to let the oil out of old ones.
After I turned filter upside down for 1 hour, the filter still fairly heavy and my guess is that it still have several ounces in it.
I'll let it drain, upside down, overnight next time to see if most, if not all, oil drain out.
Even if I change filter every oil change, I would like to drain as much oil out of filter as possible before take it to recycle center. Just poke a hole to the ADBV and drain the oil ?
I have let them set a week or so and the oil never drained out. I punch a hole in them to let the oil out of old ones.
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