How often to change oil using Supertech 10W30 in a turbo engine?
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Simple, the test cost more then the oil change and I drive my car hard. So just probably 90% of all the other DSMers on the road.quote:
Originally posted by BrianWC:
All I said and I stand by it. Why not analyze some of your 3k ST to see how well it does?
I guess it doesn't matter what I say, you are going to troll post just so you can have the last word in. I've seen DSM turbo's fail in 30K miles and less even. Most of that is probably due to owner error on turbo warmup and cool down, but overall the 4g63t engine is hard on oil and I don't know anyone who ever bought a turbo car to just cruise in. Just about every DSMer changes the oil in 3K miles even with Mobil 1. Some even sooner (even I think that is a wast), but they also drive the cars very hard, race them, abuse them, ect. I change my oil every 3K miles because of how my car is driven. Even following any owners manual, you are suppost to change the oil earlier in extreme driving conditions.
Maybe the original poster could jump in and explain the dring habbits this car gets. If the car is stock, not driven hard, and used in a normal fashion, then 5K oil changes could very well be in order. I've NEVER seen anyone do that with a DSM turbo tho. I've even seen older folks drive it like they stole it. The same with the new WRXs and such. I've seen older ladies driving like wannabe race car drivers in WRX wagons. It's kind of funny.
Memo:
Not my intent to step into the little fray that you and Bryan have going on here, but I agree that UOA is appropriate. You don't have to do one with every oil change either. I really don't understand all this reluctance to the "expense" of a UOA. We have guys who will spend thousands of dollars to enhance and improve their cars, spend more for the extra fuel such cars burn, and more for the extra maintencance that they almost always require. But $25 for a UOA, and suddenly, it's "no way!" OK, maybe you drive hard (I do
Thanks everyone for the replies. Here's the info on the car:
It has a rebuilt 6 bolt engine, with unknwon miles on it. I had an oil leak, and was also burning some oil, so that is why I was using the "cheap stuff".
I fixed the oil leak, I currently seem to use about 1/8 of a quart a week of ST.
I drive 30 miles a day (15 each way) in pretty bad traffic, quite a bit of stop and go and rush hour traffic, going from suburbs to downtown of the city.
My driving style varies from totally mellow, to downright frightening. I am trying to tone it down a bit hehe.
Usually in the morning I am in a hurry, and drive it kinda hard, and coming home I'm not in much of a hurry at all.
I also have an open air filter; A K&N, and the filter can is "hacked", exposing the entire air filter to the air. The filter has about 15K on it since it was cleaned last. It's not dusty here, so I think I might just keep driving it without cleaning it till next year, as I'm sure it filters better when it's a little bit dirty.
I have an EVO3 16G turbo, but only ruunning the stock wastegate boost, which is 10 lbs.
I often add a small amount of acetone to my fuel; about 3 oz. per 10 gallons of gas. It seems to make the engine rev a little freer, quieter and smoother. A small performance increase is noticeable. I am not sure if it (Acetone) helps with gas mileage for sure or not, because the traffic varies so much from tank to tank.
I am curious whether switching to a synth with a higher flash point might keep me from using as much oil.
If I were to upgrade, I would probably choose one of the 3:
Amsoil, Valvoline, Mobil 1, or Motorcraft (Is there a synthetic MC in 10W30?).
Amsoil appears to have the highest flash point of them all. But if I use it and still have to add oil, I think I'm probably better off with something cheaper, and just change more often.
I still need to do the math, and see how it compares to what I'm using now.
I am interested in hearing other TURBO car owner's opinions (Or those that have owned turbos in the past, or have experience with them).
So even if it's not a Mitsu engine, as long as it's turbo, I'm interested in UAO's and opinions.
I may do a UOA at some point, but at the same time, I can pay for 2 oil changes for the price of 1 UAO.
It has a rebuilt 6 bolt engine, with unknwon miles on it. I had an oil leak, and was also burning some oil, so that is why I was using the "cheap stuff".
I fixed the oil leak, I currently seem to use about 1/8 of a quart a week of ST.
I drive 30 miles a day (15 each way) in pretty bad traffic, quite a bit of stop and go and rush hour traffic, going from suburbs to downtown of the city.
My driving style varies from totally mellow, to downright frightening. I am trying to tone it down a bit hehe.
Usually in the morning I am in a hurry, and drive it kinda hard, and coming home I'm not in much of a hurry at all.
I also have an open air filter; A K&N, and the filter can is "hacked", exposing the entire air filter to the air. The filter has about 15K on it since it was cleaned last. It's not dusty here, so I think I might just keep driving it without cleaning it till next year, as I'm sure it filters better when it's a little bit dirty.
I have an EVO3 16G turbo, but only ruunning the stock wastegate boost, which is 10 lbs.
I often add a small amount of acetone to my fuel; about 3 oz. per 10 gallons of gas. It seems to make the engine rev a little freer, quieter and smoother. A small performance increase is noticeable. I am not sure if it (Acetone) helps with gas mileage for sure or not, because the traffic varies so much from tank to tank.
I am curious whether switching to a synth with a higher flash point might keep me from using as much oil.
If I were to upgrade, I would probably choose one of the 3:
Amsoil, Valvoline, Mobil 1, or Motorcraft (Is there a synthetic MC in 10W30?).
Amsoil appears to have the highest flash point of them all. But if I use it and still have to add oil, I think I'm probably better off with something cheaper, and just change more often.
I still need to do the math, and see how it compares to what I'm using now.
I am interested in hearing other TURBO car owner's opinions (Or those that have owned turbos in the past, or have experience with them).
So even if it's not a Mitsu engine, as long as it's turbo, I'm interested in UAO's and opinions.
I may do a UOA at some point, but at the same time, I can pay for 2 oil changes for the price of 1 UAO.
There's a very good chance that a UOA will show you that you can save money in the long run by altering your guesswork-based OCI plan. You will also learn things about your engine that you have no access to otherwise. Got any coolant in your oil? Bearings wearing normally? Turbo stressing the oil (or not)? Leaks in the intake allowing dirt to enter your engine? Fuel building up in your oil and reducing viscosity? And so on. You may find yourself one day looking at an engine rebuild/replacement that could have been avoided had you tracked your engine's condition. But of course, it's your money and your car, and you should do what makes you comfortable. C'mon, jump in, the water's nice and warm. . .
In just about every other case, I would agree that spending the money on a used oil test would be the correct path to take. However, in the case of a DSM, I have over a decade of research and at some point wisdom overcome test. It's really simple, if you do not change the oil often in a DSM, you will blow your turbo. Oil is cheap, turbo's are not. Also, you have to pay for crush washers, gaskets for the oil return line , and the DIY cost came come close to $800. So, when a oil change cost $15 the way I do it, I don't care one bit if I can get 500-1000 miles more out of my engine. Most DSMers are always upgrading and wanting to go faster. Ones who do it right can end up with a 12s or even a 11s 1/4 mile car. The top of the chain get even go 10s and faster. The fastest DSM runs 7s 1/4 times.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Memo:
Not my intent to step into the little fray that you and Bryan have going on here, but I agree that UOA is appropriate. You don't have to do one with every oil change either. I really don't understand all this reluctance to the "expense" of a UOA. We have guys who will spend thousands of dollars to enhance and improve their cars, spend more for the extra fuel such cars burn, and more for the extra maintencance that they almost always require. But $25 for a UOA, and suddenly, it's "no way!" OK, maybe you drive hard (I do) and change synthetic often (I don't). Maybe you're changing too early, maybe even too late. Maybe, maybe, maybe. . . . . Stop speculating and do a UOA fer cryin' out loud. Knowing is so much more fun than guessing!
I don't think you guys realize how strong a DSM can be. The 1G 6 bolts are stronger then the later ones. The 6 bolts are a much better engine and have better turbo's. The onlything holding them back is the MAF, IC setup, and exhaust, and boost. They are easier to tune now then ever and possibly even cheaper then the Mustang 5.0.
For DIY guys, changing a turbo and all the crush washers is NOT a easy task. It can be a royal PITA, and to make things worse, Mitsu mechanics don't even want to touch a turbo DSM. DSMs have become the black sheep of Mitsubishi and even tho they can be great cars, they take fine tunning, care, and upkeep. More then most people realize.
For anyone who doesn't know, most DSMers become mechanics over time because they can not rely on Mitsubishi mechanics. I know for a fact that I know more about my car then any local dealer in Indianapolis. Only a 4g63 master mechanic could talk me under the table.
In the end tho, I'm not trying to start fights, or argue with anyone, I just wanted to help a fellow DSMer. If you want to pay for test, go ahead, but in the end, I think the risk is too great.
Two things will happen. You pay for the test and you realize you can go a little longer on your oil. 2nd, you try and go longer on your oil and you find out you've gone too far and you've already done dammage to the turbo. Another thing to consitor is that if you make ANY change to your car, then any oil test you've done in the past is no longer up to date. You just have to do it again.
DSMers mod cars. At least all the ones I've met have. So, the wastfull 3K oil change is the standard. We are too busy doing other things to our cars to worry about how much penny pinching we can get out of our oil.
memo, i sypathize with you-really. Quite honestly, I think Mitsu engines are ridiculous-even in non-turbo trim they can be downright silly to work on. But I just think you are underestimating what a properly interpreted oil analysis can tell you.
And if you don't want to worry with pinching pennies with a longer interval oil change, why pinch with Supertech?
And if you don't want to worry with pinching pennies with a longer interval oil change, why pinch with Supertech?
Memo:
I'm not an expert on this engine -- quite the opposite, I'm aware of its existence, and that's about it. So I'll readily defer to your experience regarding how it responds to care (or the lack thereof). Respectfully, what I think you're overlooking is that OCI adjustment is only one of many valuable things you can learn from a UOA. See the list of sample questions I tossed out in my previous post. You can even determine, for example, whether in fact Supertech itself is a good or bad choice for this app at the short duration OCIs you're seeing. I would still do occasional UOA even if I were running short OCI because I like to know as much as I can about my engines (without taking them apart
).
I'm not an expert on this engine -- quite the opposite, I'm aware of its existence, and that's about it. So I'll readily defer to your experience regarding how it responds to care (or the lack thereof). Respectfully, what I think you're overlooking is that OCI adjustment is only one of many valuable things you can learn from a UOA. See the list of sample questions I tossed out in my previous post. You can even determine, for example, whether in fact Supertech itself is a good or bad choice for this app at the short duration OCIs you're seeing. I would still do occasional UOA even if I were running short OCI because I like to know as much as I can about my engines (without taking them apart
Geez, Memo..
I know, I know!
You kiss your Mama good night with that filthy mouth?
I know, I know!
I don't think you want to add acetone in your fuel tank. I am not a chemical expert, but it is a strong solvent for organic material. I know gasoline is also kind of solvent, but my guess is acetone is stronger.
It may not compatible with fuel lines, seals, and gaskets. Also it may solve engine oil also.
If I were you, I would change the fuel filter regularly, and use fuel system cleaner once or twice a year instead of using acetone.
It may not compatible with fuel lines, seals, and gaskets. Also it may solve engine oil also.
If I were you, I would change the fuel filter regularly, and use fuel system cleaner once or twice a year instead of using acetone.
I did months of reserch on supertech oil before I used it in my car. I even did searches on this forums and found a oil test on a Nissan Maxima. I also read a lot of of other forums, even down to truck forums.quote:
Originally posted by BrianWC:
memo, i sypathize with you-really. Quite honestly, I think Mitsu engines are ridiculous-even in non-turbo trim they can be downright silly to work on. But I just think you are underestimating what a properly interpreted oil analysis can tell you.
And if you don't want to worry with pinching pennies with a longer interval oil change, why pinch with Supertech?
From what I can tell, the ST syn is almost as good, if not as good as Castrol Syntec. I don't consitor it penny penching as much as I just don't feel like paying for advertising and a brand name. I know that the ST filter is made by Champion Labs and even tho it's not the same filter, they also make the Mobil 1 and K&N oil filters. It's a well filtering high flow oil filter.
I didn't just wake up one morning, and decided I'd like to throw some cheap oil in my car and see what happens. I did a little homework on it.
If anyone has any reason as to why I shouldn't use ST syn, please speak up, I'd like to hear anything you have to say. From what I've read, it was all positive feedback.
That was my whole point-I think you're fine and could maybe go longer.
It's very interesting, BTW, that despite the fact that ST dino is rising with the rest of the motor oil prices, ST synth stays at $12.24 per 5 quart jug at my wally world.
It's very interesting, BTW, that despite the fact that ST dino is rising with the rest of the motor oil prices, ST synth stays at $12.24 per 5 quart jug at my wally world.
I sent in a UOA to Blackstone last week for ST synth 10W-30 in a 5S-FE 1999 Camry. I will post my results in the UOA section when I get them.
BrianWC, the Wal-Marts here in Miami recently raised prices on the 5 quart jugs to (I think) $12.84
BrianWC, the Wal-Marts here in Miami recently raised prices on the 5 quart jugs to (I think) $12.84
I've gotten your point of view, over and over, and over again. Do you really think you are changing my mind? Do you think thatquote:
Originally posted by BrianWC:
That was my whole point-I think you're fine and could maybe go longer.
It's very interesting, BTW, that despite the fact that ST dino is rising with the rest of the motor oil prices, ST synth stays at $12.24 per 5 quart jug at my wally world.
You do NOT understand Mitsu's 4g63t engines. While I have not done a oil test, I have seen a decade of turbo's blowing early, over and over again. I know for a fact that you wouldn't back buying me a new turbo if I tried to go 5K on my current oil in the fashion I drive my car. So, if you can't put your money where you mouth is, then stop making suggestions on a engine you don't understand.
Also, the balance shaft wear is a huge problem on this engine. The front one is driven off of a belt that is driven off the crank. The rear one is driven off the oil pump. They are not acually needed and the engines will run just fine without them. The problem is, the front one is pron to freezing up, trashing the belt, and then the balance shaft can get tangled up in the timming belt and you have a trashed head. Maybe even pistons depending on how fast you were going. The failure rate for the balance shafts gets higher the higher the HP the engine output has. Mine are going to be removed this year at some point, but once that little problem is removed, oil pressure gets raised, and the bottom end can be good for upto and beyond 300K miles. I've seen pictures of these engines taken apart that had over 100K miles on them. The ones that used synthetic (mainly mobil 1) and had 3K oil changes looked brand new.
I've also seen pictures of engines that were not cared for as much and they look horrible.
You can respond as many times as you want on this subject, but when it comes to this car, you still don't get it, you don't have a clue about what this engines does to oil. and a decade of knowladge on the 4g63t is enough for me to know to not try and push my oil change times just to save a few bucks.
If it were any other car that I didn't know about, I would have stopped posting a lot time ago, but you are in the wrong on this. I wish you would just shut up at this point.
I'm not trying to win a popularity contest. I'm trying to help out a fellow DSMer and if I have to deal with a post troll to try and get him some real information, then I guess I'll have to just deal with that.quote:
Originally posted by BrianWC:
For the love of pete, someone's jumpy. I suggest you take a deep breath or you won't be very popular on this board.
And you know these were oil-related failures how? And if they were oil-related, was it really due to some failure in the oil which caused the oil to not protect the engine & turbo? Or was it more of an issue of not keeping the oil level in the proper range?
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