Check his UOA's and the recalls, and the other various problems that SAAB has had, the PCV problems, and the likes. His UOA's say alot about the SAAB engine. I was also leary, but SAABcentral.com and his UOA's tell the story on what a 9-5 can do to syn oil.
How often to change oil using Supertech 10W30 in a turbo engine?
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Will do. Thanks again.
If you have all this money tied up in your car why not use Redline?
I mean really wouldn't that be considered cheap insurance?
While it may be a Group III (and so it Syntec and most of the syn blends which are highly regarded), it seems perfect for those who wish to use a synthetic, but not run exagerated OCI's. It has all the ratings (SM, ACEA, etc.) covered, and costs less than half of what Mobil 1 EP is. Plus from all of the UOA's I've seen it is a darn good base oil with a decent (maybe not stellar) add pack. There were even posts by someone with inside knowledge on another thread that reported the ST Syn uses the same add pack that Castrol does, and that it is the best add pack on the market. I applaud anyone who is willing to run their synth out to 7k and beyond. But I like using a syn that I can run to 5k and dump. Makes me sleep better at night knowing new full synth oil is in there 3 times a year.
And I sincerely believe that it is only $12 because of no Nascar sponsorship, no ESPN ad campaign, etc. Just a good quality oil sold in the biggest retail outlet in the world. I hate Wally's as much as the next guy, but I have to have oil, so I'll use their buying power to my advantage whenever I can.
Back on topic speedy, I say use it for 3k on the first run to clean out any old oil from the previous load, and then run it out to 5k on the second run with a UOA to validate that it is working, IMO.
I tried to edit, but time had elapsed. The only real way to know how far you can run your oil is to get it tested. Run the oil for as long as you ar planning on running it, then send in a sample. $20 now could save you more money in the future.
Redline cost a lot. I run Redline trans fluids with my rebuilt trans because I get really smooth shifts with it. The engine is acually stock. Only bolt ons and the crank is good for about 450HP reliably and it can acually do over 500HP. The stock rods and pistons can hold 400HP NP. At the moment, I'm not maxing out my engine and I will start rebuilding a replacement when I need it. I rather spend about $15 (oil and filter) every 4-5 months (I don't drive this car that often) and change my oil every 3K miles instead of trying to find the breaking point of where ST Synthetic fails and then putting extra wear on a turbo that cost around $650.quote:
Originally posted by Gilitar:
If you have all this money tied up in your car why not use Redline?
I mean really wouldn't that be considered cheap insurance?
The fact is, the ST is good enough for what I use my car for and I havn't had a single problem with it.
I would have to agree with the the cost of the ST being cheap because it doesn't have a brand name, but I read up a LOT on it before I used it and while it is probably very close if not just as good as Castrol Syntec, I have read rumors, theory's from people who really try and follow up with the ST synthetics and the additive packs might not always be the same. I do not know if this is true or not, but the ST stuff isn't up front with any kind if information and they seem to want to hide who makes it, ect.
NA or turbo modded engines?
It's a little different when your oil needs to protect the fastest mechanical spinning device invented yet.
If I had a Mustang, I'd go 5K miles, but with a turbo, the oil collects more dirt then with a NA engines.
While this is the gasoline part of the forum, turbo diesel trucks acually have oil reserve tanks and cycle new oil so they can go farther between oil changes. While a turbo diesel engine is different and the oil gets black after a few days, a gasoline turbo engine is harder on oil then a NA performance engine and maybe not in all applications, but for a 4g63t, they are prone to making oil very dirty quickly.
So, unless you are a 4g63 expert, please don't put me in the 3K oil change ideal was just sold to me by oil change places and dealers. I don't change at 3K miles in all my cars.
The topic is about turbo engines, so keep on the subject.
The question was also asked about ST sythetic oil. If he was running mobil 1 and a mobil 1 filter, then I would have a different view on how long to go between oil changes.
Here, try these to learn more about those easy on oil saabs.
http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/9s.cfm
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58536&highlight=sludge
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=375971
I'd also recommend searching BITOG for "oil color" or "dirty oil."
http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/9s.cfm
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58536&highlight=sludge
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=375971
I'd also recommend searching BITOG for "oil color" or "dirty oil."
Memo:
If you're going to go out on a limb and violate the board rules in this fashion, you might at least consider spelling "retarded" correctly. . .
Speedy:
I join Gary and shaman in recommending that you try at least a one-time UOA. Everything else is just speculation. It may be educated speculation, but in the end, that's all it is. UOA, even if you only do it once, will answer your questions with much more certainty than we can.
The black oil comment had NOTHING to do with gasoline engines. Please go back and read my post. You are putting words in to my mouth. You are going way off topic with your post and talking about saab. Just because you had a turbo saab doesn't mean you have all the answers for all turbo cars. The topic is very narrow on the type of oil the owner wants to use and the type of engine he is running.
Lets just leave the saab thing and black oil unrealated stuff alone and stick to ST synthetic in a 4g63t engine. That's what the poster wanted information on. I've been in to 4g63s for the better part of a decade now and they are not that easy on oil. The 95+ ones do have a better oil system for the turbo, but pre 95s get oil last before it returns to the oil pan.
If the question was about oil in a different car, I would have never posted, but I'm trying to give valuable information on a car I know very much about. If you look at my posting record, I'm not some posting troll. I hardly ever post, but in this case, I'm not making stuff up, I'm not just repeating things that I've heard.
I'm giving good information about the Mitsu 4g63t engine and how it treats oil.
The base oil in a dino HDEO is not as good as the base oil in ST Syn. For a turbo car, a good base oil is more important than diesel type additives. I think he will get better performance from ST Syn than a dino HDEO. IMHO
I did...
No, I just brought up the fact that I owned a saab b/c you attacked me for having no clue what turbos do to oil. I then had to elaborate b/c you again mocked me for stating saabs are tough on oil. Anything else?
Anyway, as Shamen said, it's all guesswork until you do a UOA
No doubt you are right that a good base oil makes a difference. I was just stating at the 3k interval, it may not matter as much. In my own car, a dino HDEO at 2k still had a 6.2 TBN at 2k miles (arx clean cycle). It sheared a bit but insoluables were low. I know that's not conclusive but I can't see how at such a short OCI it's gonna be that bad.
How about a HDEO like Delo or Rotella SYN ??
People sure are opinionated here!
I did not think there was a contest to see which car is harder on oil. As far as that arguement goes, it is clear that Saabs are hard on oil. However, we have very little data to determine how well the Mitsu engines treat their oil. One other point to consider is oil capacity. IIRC, the Saab holds much more oil than the Mitsu. True?
As far as using ST synthetic oil in a turbo with 3k OCI, that sounds like a great compromise to me. ST Synthetic is a nice group III oil. As far as the add pack, you do not see much in the VOA, but you do not see much in any Castrol oils either. It could just be some sort of "stealth" add pack.
I believe tha mfg recommended OCI is 3750 miles. No?
3K OCI on a Turbo with a "cheap" synthetic oil.
I did not think there was a contest to see which car is harder on oil. As far as that arguement goes, it is clear that Saabs are hard on oil. However, we have very little data to determine how well the Mitsu engines treat their oil. One other point to consider is oil capacity. IIRC, the Saab holds much more oil than the Mitsu. True?
As far as using ST synthetic oil in a turbo with 3k OCI, that sounds like a great compromise to me. ST Synthetic is a nice group III oil. As far as the add pack, you do not see much in the VOA, but you do not see much in any Castrol oils either. It could just be some sort of "stealth" add pack.
I believe tha mfg recommended OCI is 3750 miles. No?
3K OCI on a Turbo with a "cheap" synthetic oil.
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You're so right. It wouldn't be that way if everyone could grasp my thorougly sensible view on the universe. It's as plain as the nose on your face ..really.quote:
People sure are opinionated here!
What are they thinking
Saabs hold 4.1 quarts. Not a lot. It wasn't supposed to be a contest. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about b/c I don't sleep on a bed constructed of Mitsu parts and was merely pointing out I also own a turbo car that is hard on oil, which was not believed.
If you think ST is cheap enough, sure. But you'd probably get just as good a result using dino HDEOs at that short of an interval.
If you think ST is cheap enough, sure. But you'd probably get just as good a result using dino HDEOs at that short of an interval.
How much boost are you running at your Talon?
I have an 03 EVO, and according to my owner's manual Mitsubishi recommends 3750 miles / 4 months OCI for severe condition, and 5000 miles / 5 months OCI for general condition with 100% synthetic 10W30 oil.
I saw one member here did UOA of his Mobil 1 10W30 after 2500 miles during hot weather, and he had excessive oil oxidization. I guess it means that 4G63 engine is pretty hard on oil if you run 19.5psi (near 3500rpm) and 16psi (near redline) boost stock.
I am trying to stick with 4 month OCI myself (Usually hit near 3000 miles in 4 months), and I think 2500 miles OCI with supertech synthetic oil does not sound bad to me if you have a modded Talon.
As the_oil_dealer suggests, I also suggest you to use the big oil filter recommended for your Talon.
As I posted here Valvoline Synpower 10W30 has 250 oC flash point, so I guess it will stand high heat better. If you can get them cheap, I think you might want to try them.
I have an 03 EVO, and according to my owner's manual Mitsubishi recommends 3750 miles / 4 months OCI for severe condition, and 5000 miles / 5 months OCI for general condition with 100% synthetic 10W30 oil.
I saw one member here did UOA of his Mobil 1 10W30 after 2500 miles during hot weather, and he had excessive oil oxidization. I guess it means that 4G63 engine is pretty hard on oil if you run 19.5psi (near 3500rpm) and 16psi (near redline) boost stock.
I am trying to stick with 4 month OCI myself (Usually hit near 3000 miles in 4 months), and I think 2500 miles OCI with supertech synthetic oil does not sound bad to me if you have a modded Talon.
As the_oil_dealer suggests, I also suggest you to use the big oil filter recommended for your Talon.
As I posted here Valvoline Synpower 10W30 has 250 oC flash point, so I guess it will stand high heat better. If you can get them cheap, I think you might want to try them.
Lets see, so you understand how hard a turbo engine can be on oil, yet you use the
No, I just brought up the fact that I owned a saab b/c you attacked me for having no clue what turbos do to oil. I then had to elaborate b/c you again mocked me for stating saabs are tough on oil. Anything else?
Again with the LOL? Is that all you can do when you run out of words? What you you acually trying to say? That I'm a moron for suggesting 3K oil changes with ST synthetic? Are you just trying to pick a post fight, or are you just a post troll? I really have no ideal where you are going with your post.
Anyway, as Shamen said, it's all guesswork until you do a UOA
To the original poster, please hit up dsm.org Try and find a local chapter and try and sign up with a local chapter and ask them about what types of oil they use, and how long they run oil. I doubt you will find anyone mocking you for wanting to do 3K oil changes when the cars are generally driven hard, raced, modded, and not driven like your average daily driver.
The manual for my car acually suggest 10K oil changes
Dispite how much some of the people on this list know about oil, and I'm sure it's more then me, the 4g63t engine is hard on oil. Mainly the turbo on the 1Gs.
Sorta off topic, but removing the balance shafts and blocking the oil holes to the balance shaft raises oil pressure in a 4g63t engine.
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