How long to keep Redline in engine?

[brianpavlovic]

Okay, I was wondering about how long should I keep the Redline 5W-40 in my engine? I have the VW GLI 1.8T that I just changed the oil in. I drive 80% highway and 20% city and average about 1,000 miles per month. This is my first run with this oil by the way. How long should I go before I change it?

Brian

 

[Rex]

My VW calls for 10,000 mile oci. If Redline is like most synthetics and with normal uoa, I suspect 15-20k oci or 1yr which ever comes first.

I am considering running the Redline in the TDI and like to know how you like it?

Does the bottle have the CI-4 spec shown on it?

The 5w30 was the weight I might try using...

 

[TallPaul]

Call Redline and ask their tech person. I think they say max 18,000 miles or one year, but not sure. Have you been running synthetic before? If not, then the first OCI with synthetic may have to be shorter as it can get dirty faster if cleaning out deposits from conventional oil.

 

[qship1996]

based on TBN retention in my experience of using Redline for over 60,000 miles,at 5-6500 drains,and other UOA on this board,I would not go over 6-7000 miles without testing in your engine.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

If you are in warranty, then q2bruiser's advice is hard to ignore.

On my Chevy turbo diesel I follow the manufacturer's OCI's and oil specs. On the other vehicles, I don't worry and I do what I think is best and assume more risk on the engine warranty.

I don't expect an engine problem during the warranty period, I worry about having a great engine long after the warrnaty expires.

I think that a UOA and a first OCI at 7500 miles would be conservative.

Or you could try changing the oil filter and topping up at 5K and do the first oil change at 10K and run a UOA then.

If you are driving 1000 miles per month and 80% are highway miles I bet that you'll find that Redline will be good for 12K / 1year with an oil filter change and topoff at 6K /6 months.

I've started using LC20/ FP60/ and Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment, and I think that this might be a good addition to any synthetic oil.

I'm adding this mix to all our cars right now whether they run Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP, or Redline.

When I do an oil change or I start the treatment I add to the crankcase:

1 oz LC20 / quart of oil
1 oz VSOT / quart of oil

Every time the odometer crosses through another 1000 mile milestone...I add 1 oz of LC20 and 1 oz VSOT. This way if the odometer reads 7000 miles or 8000 miles, I am reminded to add the LC20 / VSOT.

I also add 1 oz FP60 to every 5 gallons of fuel every fillup.

Redline oil has some very enthusiastic users [ myself included ] and some people who are critical of it. I don't really understand why Redline is so controversial.

It costs a few dollars more per quart, but the basestock is more expensive.

This basestock is worthwhile, IMHO, based on how well Redline has performed in our our hard driven Acura's, Subaru's, VW's, and BMW.

I personally think that Mobil 1, GC, Amsoil, and Pennzoil Platinum are also good oils, and the differences between the excellent new conventional oils, HDEO, and the top synthetics has narrowed.

But if you are going to rev an engine to near redline frequently, or drive at sustained wide open throttle, or have an engine that has higher oil temps...then Redline is probably the best oil to use.

A little extra attention to oil filters, perhaps using the additives I mentioned above, and making sure the air filters, coolant, and engine systems are in good shape and Redline will fine for 10K to 12K.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

I don't really understand why Redline is so controversial.

I personally think that Mobil 1, GC, Amsoil, and Pennzoil Platinum are also good oils, and the differences between the excellent new conventional oils, HDEO, and the top synthetics has narrowed.

---

I think you answered your own question. It doesn't live up to it's $9qt price. UOA's are why most on here have given up on it. Just doesn't do all that well for long drains for what you pay for it. For racing, it's great. Probably the best.

 

[vad]

It is $7 at myoilshop.com

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by vad:
It is $7 at myoilshop.com

---

But the average price on my large GC stash is around $4/qt. Why would I bother with RL...

But back on topic, the only way to answer the question definitively for yourself is to run a UOA or two, set your comfort level, and then run with it. Anything else is educated speculation at best.

 

[Craig]

I really cannot understand why somone would put an additive
of unknown ingrediants into a perfectly good synthetic oil.
Or really any quality engine oil.
Auto-Rx for cleaning a dirty engine ok but the other
products can only screw up the base formula of the oil
package. It also reduces the amount of base stock that
is really what is lubricating the engine in the first place.

Please don't flame me as I'm just trying to get the justification
and knowledge base here that would educate me on this issue.

I see folks complaining about cost/qt of a fine product but
see no problem in adding a usually very expensive additive.

I have read Dr. Haas's articles and agree with him on his
opinions about oil. His discussion on oil flow are quite
informative.
Craig

 

[vad]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ekpolk:
But the average price on my large GC stash is around $4/qt. Why would I bother with RL...

---

My stash is the same way...
This is why I'm switching from RedLine go GC in my day to day driver.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

I've also paid between $6.70 and $7.00 per quart for Redline.

I've seen great wear numbers [ at or below averages at lower OCI's ] at 8K OCI's despite incredibly hard driving, frequent long idle times in sub zero, even once when fuel dilution was a problem due to a warranty issue with the ECU.

Redline does stay in grade, and I suspect that if I ever went to bypass filtration and touched up the add pack every so often that I could run UOA's and see if 25K or higher were possible.

My experience has been ' what more could I ask for from a motor oil? '.

Synthetic oil, and Redline especially, seems justified when the engine has:

-high output / displacement,

-may run high oil temps,

-is turbocharged or supercharged,

-is a known to be hard on oil or is sludge prone,

-has been modified to increase output and / or remove rev limits,

-engine is used for towing or vehicles are filled near maximum gross vehicle weight, or operates in mountainous regions, or at sustained wide open throttle

-or the engine is operated over a range of wide ambient temperature and a lower viscosity oil is preferred year round.

The 2005 Subaru Outback manual calls for 5w30.

But over 100 degrees F, it calls for 10w30 or 10W-40.

In areas of sustained high temps, like if I go to the desert, or if I tow, or have severe service [ like driving mountain passes with a full car and gear ].. then the manual calls for 30, 40, 10W-50, 20W-40. or 20W-50.

If I ran dino, this means 5w30 winter or maybe higher for the mountain passes. In the summer I'd run 10W-40, and switch again to 20W-50 for the trips to Vegas or Canyonlands and Moab or for a heat wave.


Or.... I could run Redline 5w30 or maybe 5W-40 year round and not worry when I drove really hard. If I used Mobil 1, GC, or Amsoil S2K /S3K I'd also be fine until I started driving really hard.

Then I'd think it was time to switch to Redline.

One of the things that GC has going for it are the European approvals and I know first hand what its like to drive at top speed on the Autobahn...and I still think driving the mountian passes is harder on engines.

In fact we will often see furure car models out here with platric panes attached to disguise the new body style...presumably for testing.

[ October 09, 2005, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

---

Originally posted by vad:
It is $7 at myoilshop.com

---

But the average price on my large GC stash is around $4/qt. Why would I bother with RL...

But back on topic, the only way to answer the question definitively for yourself is to run a UOA or two, set your comfort level, and then run with it. Anything else is educated speculation at best.

---

If I could find GC and BC at $4/ qt or $5 /qt I'd sure give green or gold a try. Bout for now, I'd have to drive 240 miles + and hope that I found some.


And I'm sure that without UOA's and particle count trends that we are speculating.

As fas as adding additives, I also subscribed to 'why mess up a carefully balanced oil and additive package' 'don't be a backyard chemist'.

But now I've changed my mind, based mostly on this forum and Terry's and Molakule's high regard for the products.

For better or worse,I'm ARX'ing certain vehicles and I've taken on the additional risk of running LC20/ FP60/ and VSOT and I feel the cars are running better.

I'll have a 10K OCI on one of the vehicles in a few months running this mix.

[ October 09, 2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]

 

[Bagger_Matt]

I agree with Craig, if the oil needs additives then find another oil. I buy a high quality oil and run it for a oci that makes me sleep easy. It seems to work for me

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Superglide:
I agree with Craig, if the oil needs additives then find another oil. I buy a high quality oil and run it for a oci that makes me sleep easy. It seems to work for me

---

I used to feel the same way about oil adds, and I think most of them deserve to be viewed this way (Slick-50 comes readily to mind...). On the other hand, I think you'll find a significant number of BITOG members, of both the dino and syn camps, who've observed significant reductions in their insoluble levels using LC. I've seen the effect myself in both M1 and GC (although I'll readily admit my experiences are not statitically significant). For whatever reason, I have seen no OTC oil (dino or syn) that controls insols the way the oil+LC combo does. On the other hand, I have rarely seen above-critical insoluble levels on either dino or syn, when used in the typically short or medium OCIs we see here in our UOA section. As always, it's a free country, take the path you prefer and enjoy your ride.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

BTW, some people think of Redline itself as an additive used to improve other oils with it Polyol Ester basestock and high moly level.

There are lots of oils that cannot meet approvals that use higher levels of additives like ZDDP and are lableled high mileage, extended performance, or are inteded for diesel or extended drain applications.

Some if us here think that ,currently, more additives can be more important than approvals.

Someone more expert than me can comment on whether VSOT ot LC20 will upset the additive packs in Mobil 1 , Mobil 1 EP, or Redline or cause harm.

I'm starting to think that adding a little extra AW, EP, or anti friction additives or [LC20 to control insulubles] over a longer drain interval isn't going to upset some incredibly complex and magical balance of additives.

The magic act is when oil companies reduce addtive levels like ZDDP and still get good results in new cars and hopefully acceptable backward compatability with new standards like ILSAC GF4 and API SM.

I know that the engine in my BMW showed immediate improvement when I added VSOT / LC20

And other cars also immediately seemed smoother and slightly more powerful with slightly higher mpg. By immediately, I mean halfway through the first tank after adding the brew.

So something good is happening, and I feel like the risk is small based on the products I'm using. I really started to change my thinking about additives.

To bring it back to Redline and OCI's.

If the basestock in Redline is very good, but a little expensive...and the goal is longer OCI's maybe the solution is to improve the oil filtration and touch up the add pack with either fresh Redline or with more additives like VSOT.

If TBN depletion is a concern maybe LC20 can help since it claims to level out TBN.

I'm not a big fan of long OCI's. I think tyhat 7500 to 12,000 miles on a top quality oil is plenty.

I value an extra margin of safety when I drive hard more than super long drain periods.

I just don't want to throw away an expensive oil before I've used 80% of it life. Redline seems to be good for 10K or more in my vehicles.

[ October 09, 2005, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]

 

[q2bruiser]

I have an 05 Gti 1.8t and the VAG manual states 5k OCI with a 502 spec oil. If your engine is out of warranty, the do as you like. However, if you want to keep your warranty then don't go over 5k ... not by a single mile as you run a good chance of having it voided.

JKH

 

[Dad2leia]

Ok people here is my two cents worth:

Run the Redline for 10K miles at the most. It is an extended OCI and still gives you the peace of mind knowing that you're not overdoing it in the additive depletion department, AND you're not buying an additive to add to it to keep it going. Unfortunately, motor oil is NOT like the Energizer bunny. Eventually, it dies...

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Ok people here is my two cents worth:

Run the Redline for 10K miles at the most. It is an extended OCI and still gives you the peace of mind knowing that you're not overdoing it in the additive depletion department, AND you're not buying an additive to add to it to keep it going. Unfortunately, motor oil is NOT like the Energizer bunny. Eventually, it dies...

---

Alas, the bunny dies too, but no one knows precisely when. Same with oil. 10k is probably safe in most apps with RL, but again, I think each user should do at least one UOA to try to get a more precise read of oil longevity in their particular driver-engine-environment combination.

 

[Dad2leia]

I concur that ekpolk, I was just doing a generality statement. With my style of driving, I usually went no more than 5K or 6K miles. Playing taxi service for the family has it's BIG disadvantages for oil longevity!