How long have you seen a transmission go without a fluid change?

[Pitbull]

My new 2004 Toyota 4runner uses a new Toyota ATF fluid (WS-ATF). Toyota states that this fluid "NEVER" needs to be changed and can not be mixed with any other fluid. They even deleted the dip stick so the transmission is basically sealed. They do say if you tow heavy that you should change the filter/and fluid in the transmission pan at 60K miles. So now you know why I am asking this question. How long have you seen a transmission go without being serviced/fluid filter changed??? I'm wanting to feel warm and fuzzy from the answers I get

 

[Michael SR]

i'm sure people will chime in with longer intervals than this, but my girlfriend's '91 honda civic has 130k miles and is on the original ATF.

-michael

 

[TheLoneRanger]

I helped a friend change the ATF and filter in a late 80's Toyota truck last year. It had an estimated 250K miles on it (odometer was broken) and the ATF hadn't been changed since new.

The pan had a nasty buildup in it, that had to be scraped out with a putty knife. Strangely enough, the fluid was only slightly brown, and the filter was still mostly clear. It used Mercon/Dexron ATF.

The transmission had a "lazy" first gear engagement, that the fluid change didn't fix. (Probably a worn-out servo) It still shifted fine, though, and I was impressed that it had gone that far without any maintenence.

 

[John D]

I had over 250K KM on my '89 Dakota without any fluid/filter change (although I am almost ashamed to say it!). The only time it seen new fluid was when the transmission hose to the radiator started leaking and I replaced around 2 or 3 lost quarts.

 

[SteveD2]

My friend has a Cherokee with the AW4 with the original 14 year old fluid...about 230,000 miles. He wanted to change it but I told him at this point it's probably best to just leave it...

 

[Pitbull]

Thanks, that makes me feel better. I plan on trading this 4runner at 90K miles. Since Toyota claims it is a lifetime fill and I won't be towing or hauling anything I might just leave it alone. I figure anytime something is screwed with there is a chance for a problem.

 

[Whimsey]

Just curious as to how long Toyota warranties the transmission in your 4Runner. If it's not till you plan on trading in the SUV then you might end up spending a lot of money later on a transmission repair versus spending a little money on maintenance while you own it. Once it's past Toyota's warranty they don't care about the problems caused by their "no service needed" recommendations. NO ATF is going to last forever! You may get to 90,000 miles without any major noticeable transmission problems. But then you may have difficulty selling or even lose value because of the lack of maintenance, even if it's not "required" in the owner's manual. My wife has a 2002 Explorer. And the transmission is a "no fluid service" transmission also. I had the fluid exchanged at 30,000 miles and the shifting improved. It was fine before but it got better after the total ATF fluid exchange. A $100 fluid exchange is a lot cheaper than a $3000 transmission

Whimsey

 

[got boost?]

my mom bought a '94 caprice new, and didn't change the fluid until it had 226k miles on it. My opinion at that point was to leave it alone, but my dad had it flushed, and it actually had no ill effect. the car now has 285k+ miles on it and still running strong. I now believe gm's 100k mile change interval IS correct in some cases where the car is lightly driven mostly highway miles. the transmission is a 4l60e btw.

 

[Pitbull]

Whimsey, how about 20 qts at $18 per quart. Plus another $100 to use the machine. What's that $460? Since I only have 2500 miles on my 4runner I have some time to see how others are doing with this "no change". Also I have plenty of time to talk with dealer on how many transmission services they end up doing on the 2004 transmissions. Warranty is 60K miles, if I do the filter and pan change I would do it at 50K miles. If mine was a Ford I would service it no matter what Ford said.

 

[jafo]

Bmw and many other mfrs say lifetime for the trans fluid,which I do not believe in.I saw some wasted auto trans when I worked at bmw with way under 100k miles.The lifetime fluid is also major $ at bmw,like $200-300 for the fluid.All the mfrs seem to be jumping on the low maintenance bandwagon,15k-20k mile oil changes,lifetime fluid,sealed suspension,etc.I believe in the long run it's really going to hurt the poor mofo's like me who buy secondhand.

 

[TheLoneRanger]

If I'm not mistaken, the auto manufacturers are now required by EPA regulations to make so-called "maintenence free" vehicles. The requirements are for everything to last 100K miles; coolant, transmission fluids, differential fluids, exhaust systems, emissions systems, and no required tuneups.....

Who cares what happens after the 100K miles are up......except maybe the consumer.

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
snip.... I figure anytime something is screwed with there is a chance for a problem.

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Very true. Some things cause more problems than they prevent.

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheLoneRanger:


Who cares what happens after the 100K miles are up......except maybe the consumer.

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I prefer to buy new and trade at 90K miles. What is weird I alway use a good synthetic and maintain the vehicles better than the manufacture recommends. Knowing me I will have Toyota do the Transmission service at 50K even though Toyota only recommends it at 60K miles if you tow heavy. When I trade someone gets a real good used vehicle. I'm just affraid that when I trade this one in 5-6 years I will end up driving some "Fuel Cell" powered vehicle.

 

[Whimsey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Whimsey, how about 20 qts at $18 per quart. Plus another $100 to use the machine. What's that $460? Since I only have 2500 miles on my 4runner I have some time to see how others are doing with this "no change". Also I have plenty of time to talk with dealer on how many transmission services they end up doing on the 2004 transmissions. Warranty is 60K miles, if I do the filter and pan change I would do it at 50K miles. If mine was a Ford I would service it no matter what Ford said.

---

Boy those "fern" vehicle manufactures sure stick it to you on maintenance costs

! And just what do you mean by that crack about Ford

!

Whimsey

 

[FL-400S]

I just changed the 80W90 gear oil in my Tercel today with 76700 miles. I added a couple of ounces of AutoRx and 2.5 quarts of SuperTech 80W90 gear oil. In 1000 miles Ill drain and put in Mobil 1 and thats gonna be the last transmission oil change for this car until it dies. Stick does shift smoother already though.

 

[rgl]

I have not done research into this, but I wonder if anyone has thought of suing auto manufacturers that say ATF does not need service ever when transmissions fail even post-warranty. It would seem it is similar to the claim made by the Dexcool haters that there was an implied warranty for the coolant for the period the manual said not to change it. I don't know if that would be a meritorious claim. The automakers could easily say change at 100k or whatever instead of the ridiculous don't ever change it.

 

[Kestas]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
Whimsey, how about 20 qts at $18 per quart. Plus another $100 to use the machine. What's that $460?...

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This boggles my mind. Why does Toyota specify this expensive fluid? What does this transmission do that the old style cheap-to-maintain transmissions can't do? What ever happened to cheap transportation?

 

[Cutehumor]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheLoneRanger:
If I'm not mistaken, the auto manufacturers are now required by EPA regulations to make so-called "maintenence free" vehicles. The requirements are for everything to last 100K miles; coolant, transmission fluids, differential fluids, exhaust systems, emissions systems, and no required tuneups.....

Who cares what happens after the 100K miles are up......except maybe the consumer.

---

you know I never thought of that..the EPA with 100k intervals of coolant, transmission fluid, no tuneups. maybe they are doing this because it prevents potential hazards to environment instead of the routine 30k change interval. maybe afraid joe schmo would dump antifreeze and transmission fluid into ground every 30k but instead only every 100k miles.

 

[K-Man]

There is some truth in what TheLoneRanger says. According to EPA regs, anything that can affect emissions has to be covered by warranty and replacements made free to the consumer for 100K miles or whatever the current interval is.

There has been talk that the EPA and automakers alike want to move toward a "sealed hood" standard where it would be made very difficult for owners to do their own maintenance. Already one Audi model sold in Europe--I believe the A2--has an engine that is impossible to get access to without disassembling the front end. The Volvo YCC show car that made news earlier this year was set up the same way.

When R134a replaced R12 in automotive air conditioning systems, the EPA attempted to require licensing and restricted availability of the new refrigerant. There was talk that this was to be the first step toward requiring the same of coolant and oil, so that Harry Homeowner couldn't cause pollution and waste resources. A letter-writing campaign convinced the feds to back off--at least for now. But it looks as if the automakers are going down that road anyway. Sad to see that Toyota has to be one of them.

 

[car_junkie_moron]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
My new 2004 Toyota 4runner uses a new Toyota ATF fluid (WS-ATF). Toyota states that this fluid "NEVER" needs to be changed and can not be mixed with any other fluid. They even deleted the dip stick so the transmission is basically sealed. They do say if you tow heavy that you should change the filter/and fluid in the transmission pan at 60K miles. So now you know why I am asking this question. How long have you seen a transmission go without being serviced/fluid filter changed??? I'm wanting to feel warm and fuzzy from the answers I get

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you might find this funny but when i changed fluid on my brother's mazda 626 it had 140,000 miles. as soon as i dropped the pan just because of that smell i throwed up twice. So I filled in three quarts and took it to a shop to let them use t-tec on it. When fluid started coming out, mechanic mumbled "what a nasty **** " ha ha ha but 140,000 with never changed was pretty impressive. Gears never slipped or anything it just that I wanted to make it breath clean.