How long can you avoid changing full synthetic oi
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If you're a DIY guy, I would save the money on a used oil analysis and instead spend $30 for a Fumoto drain valve. If your Honda engine is a four banger, they are not tough on motor oil. So I would switch to a 5w-20 conventional or synthetic blend, change oil once a year without getting your hands dirty and change the filter every other year.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
If you're a DIY guy, I would save the money on a used oil analysis and instead spend $30 for a Fumoto drain valve. If your Honda engine is a four banger, they are not tough on motor oil. So I would switch to a 5w-20 conventional or synthetic blend, change oil once a year without getting your hands dirty and change the filter every other year.
+1 and use a Fram Ultra oil filter for the 2 year OCI.
If you're a DIY guy, I would save the money on a used oil analysis and instead spend $30 for a Fumoto drain valve. If your Honda engine is a four banger, they are not tough on motor oil. So I would switch to a 5w-20 conventional or synthetic blend, change oil once a year without getting your hands dirty and change the filter every other year.
+1 and use a Fram Ultra oil filter for the 2 year OCI.
I have read an article on Popular science from 1976 where they ran Mobil 1 synthetic in a Ford 460 BB powered Lincoln continetal for 100.000 Miles , yes 100.000!
Some people speculated to me before that oil after a year would have water condensation in it, or that the water condensation would make the oil become acidic, are eithor of these true? Just to clarify I do drive my car about 5 miles a couple times a week and more like 10 miles every month or couple months. The trips I take are not highway driving but more like country road driving about 45 mph.
Originally Posted By: matt357
I do take it a few miles a couple times a week to exercise the engine.
The car would be better served to use it for a longer trip. A 20 mile run around once per week would be better, both for the car and the earl.
I do take it a few miles a couple times a week to exercise the engine.
The car would be better served to use it for a longer trip. A 20 mile run around once per week would be better, both for the car and the earl.
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I just wrote the long version of this answer elsewhere on BITOG. But lightly used vehicles tend to accumulate water, fuel, and acids at much faster rates nad you need to get rid of them. IN many ways its worse than regular use. Those contaminants are eliminated by boiling and burning them - which rarely happens on lightly used cars - especially garage queen collectibles.
Originally Posted By: just_me
I just wrote the long version of this answer elsewhere on BITOG. But lightly used vehicles tend to accumulate water, fuel, and acids at much faster rates nad you need to get rid of them. IN many ways its worse than regular use. Those contaminants are eliminated by boiling and burning them - which rarely happens on lightly used cars - especially garage queen collectibles.
You did post a longer version in another thread but it was no more valid than this one is.
Acid products of combustion do indeed form in the engine oil, but they are dealt with by base adds to the oil, mainly calcium. This is expressed by a number known as TBN.
Fuel does find its way into the oil, but it is solvent in the oil and cannot be fully evaporated out. This was dealt with in a couple of threads this week.
Moisture or water is the one thing that can be fully eliminated from the oil with prolonged running at operating temperature.
There are a number of used oil analysis in that sub-forum of engines run for limited miles over a number of years. They all look pretty good.
After all of the above, I'm in your camp.
An annual drain isn't excessive for any engine that gets any use at all, even if only a couple of thousand or hundred miles.
Getting the nasties out and fresh oil in is just too cheap not to do.
I just wrote the long version of this answer elsewhere on BITOG. But lightly used vehicles tend to accumulate water, fuel, and acids at much faster rates nad you need to get rid of them. IN many ways its worse than regular use. Those contaminants are eliminated by boiling and burning them - which rarely happens on lightly used cars - especially garage queen collectibles.
You did post a longer version in another thread but it was no more valid than this one is.
Acid products of combustion do indeed form in the engine oil, but they are dealt with by base adds to the oil, mainly calcium. This is expressed by a number known as TBN.
Fuel does find its way into the oil, but it is solvent in the oil and cannot be fully evaporated out. This was dealt with in a couple of threads this week.
Moisture or water is the one thing that can be fully eliminated from the oil with prolonged running at operating temperature.
There are a number of used oil analysis in that sub-forum of engines run for limited miles over a number of years. They all look pretty good.
After all of the above, I'm in your camp.
An annual drain isn't excessive for any engine that gets any use at all, even if only a couple of thousand or hundred miles.
Getting the nasties out and fresh oil in is just too cheap not to do.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
An annual drain isn't excessive for any engine that gets any use at all, even if only a couple of thousand or hundred miles. Getting the nasties out and fresh oil in is just too cheap not to do.
Low mileage doesn't necessarily imply short-tripping. I do very low miles, but I avoid short trips, and my ambient temperatures are generally high, which should help a bit.
Re fuel dilution "Cannot be fully evaporated out" is not the same as "cannot be evaporated out", so sustained runs at operating temperature are still of value.
In any case if you have a "maintenance minder" its algorithms should account for all that stuff, though I note GM recently changed theirs quite drastically, suggesting they might have got it wrong.
I am the maintenance minder for my car, so I do what I feel like. Currently that's looking like 3-4 year OCI. IF I get around to measuring stuff (unlikely I'll find the time) that might change.
An annual drain isn't excessive for any engine that gets any use at all, even if only a couple of thousand or hundred miles. Getting the nasties out and fresh oil in is just too cheap not to do.
Low mileage doesn't necessarily imply short-tripping. I do very low miles, but I avoid short trips, and my ambient temperatures are generally high, which should help a bit.
Re fuel dilution "Cannot be fully evaporated out" is not the same as "cannot be evaporated out", so sustained runs at operating temperature are still of value.
In any case if you have a "maintenance minder" its algorithms should account for all that stuff, though I note GM recently changed theirs quite drastically, suggesting they might have got it wrong.
I am the maintenance minder for my car, so I do what I feel like. Currently that's looking like 3-4 year OCI. IF I get around to measuring stuff (unlikely I'll find the time) that might change.
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Originally Posted By: ragtoplvr
It also depends on the filter. The media and adhesives are soaked with oil, and that may deteriorate them at some rate.
Rod
OTOH, paper in general deteriorates mostly due to acid hydrolysis of the cellulose, and secondarily due to oxidation.
It seems likely that immersion in motor oil will slow both these processes.
If you have a "filter stash" you might consider filling your stored filters with oil.
It also depends on the filter. The media and adhesives are soaked with oil, and that may deteriorate them at some rate.
Rod
OTOH, paper in general deteriorates mostly due to acid hydrolysis of the cellulose, and secondarily due to oxidation.
It seems likely that immersion in motor oil will slow both these processes.
If you have a "filter stash" you might consider filling your stored filters with oil.
Oil analysis will give you numbers that you can interpret. Its pretty hard to give generic "rules of thumb" as some cars are a lot harder on oils than others. I'm at 50k miles since my car's last oil change and not even thinking twice about running another 50k miles. But that's because I have seen test data with very similar engines and identical oils that show they're suitable for the purpose.
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Originally Posted By: matt357
Some people speculated to me before that oil after a year would have water condensation in it, or that the water condensation would make the oil become acidic, are eithor of these true? Just to clarify I do drive my car about 5 miles a couple times a week and more like 10 miles every month or couple months. The trips I take are not highway driving but more like country road driving about 45 mph.
Assuming the engine is mechanically sound, water/fuel contamination is boiled off in fairly short order. Oils have what is known as a TBN and TAN. When TBN declines and TAN rises to a certain condemnation standard, the oil should be removed from service.
The 'ultimate' way of finding out for sure how hard you are stressing your oil and how much you can extend (or shorten) your OCI is to run at the manufacturer's recommended oil change and do a used oil analysis. If the numbers come back with flying colours, then you likely can extend the interval considerably.
Some people speculated to me before that oil after a year would have water condensation in it, or that the water condensation would make the oil become acidic, are eithor of these true? Just to clarify I do drive my car about 5 miles a couple times a week and more like 10 miles every month or couple months. The trips I take are not highway driving but more like country road driving about 45 mph.
Assuming the engine is mechanically sound, water/fuel contamination is boiled off in fairly short order. Oils have what is known as a TBN and TAN. When TBN declines and TAN rises to a certain condemnation standard, the oil should be removed from service.
The 'ultimate' way of finding out for sure how hard you are stressing your oil and how much you can extend (or shorten) your OCI is to run at the manufacturer's recommended oil change and do a used oil analysis. If the numbers come back with flying colours, then you likely can extend the interval considerably.
The OP states he drives 5 miles twice a week and 10 on the weekend. That is almost the definition of "short tripper" ...
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
The OP states he drives 5 miles twice a week and 10 on the weekend. That is almost the definition of "short tripper" ...
Regardless of the definition commonly used on this forum as a "short tripper", the usage pattern is well and truly within the realms of "severe service" as defined by any manufacturer.
The net result unequivocally being shorter service intervals.
The OP states he drives 5 miles twice a week and 10 on the weekend. That is almost the definition of "short tripper" ...
Regardless of the definition commonly used on this forum as a "short tripper", the usage pattern is well and truly within the realms of "severe service" as defined by any manufacturer.
The net result unequivocally being shorter service intervals.
Originally Posted By: pitzel
Oil analysis will give you numbers that you can interpret.
If discussions on this site are anything to go by, it'll also give you numbers that you can't interpret.
The numbers that you probably can interpret are viscosity and TBN/AN/pH (the last not AFAIK offered by commercial labs).
I don't know how much it'd cost me in overseas postage to get a used oil analysis done (if that is even possible, since it may be regarded as hazardous material) but since the price of that information, even domestically in the United States, is more than the cost of an oil change, the value is questionable.
I'd consider trying to get the information on a DIY basis though. Looks possible, but its finding the time.
Oil analysis will give you numbers that you can interpret.
If discussions on this site are anything to go by, it'll also give you numbers that you can't interpret.
The numbers that you probably can interpret are viscosity and TBN/AN/pH (the last not AFAIK offered by commercial labs).
I don't know how much it'd cost me in overseas postage to get a used oil analysis done (if that is even possible, since it may be regarded as hazardous material) but since the price of that information, even domestically in the United States, is more than the cost of an oil change, the value is questionable.
I'd consider trying to get the information on a DIY basis though. Looks possible, but its finding the time.
Originally Posted By: SR5
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You could always get an oil analysis to see how things are going.
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^ THIS. Take a small sample then you can know for sure. Or just change it.
FWIW there are folks on here going 10k with M1, and 40k(!) with AMSOIL Signature Series (but it does burn a quart every 2k).
I'm "doing" 10k with Schaeffer 9000.
...
You could always get an oil analysis to see how things are going.
...
^ THIS. Take a small sample then you can know for sure. Or just change it.
FWIW there are folks on here going 10k with M1, and 40k(!) with AMSOIL Signature Series (but it does burn a quart every 2k).
I'm "doing" 10k with Schaeffer 9000.
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UOA is the only way to know ...
Follow the OLM or change once a year, which ever is shorter. In your case this will likely be once a year.
Think about this for a moment: a DIY oil change with the best synthetic oil and filter will cost less than $35/year in your case. What exactly are you expecting to save by not doing this?
Think about this for a moment: a DIY oil change with the best synthetic oil and filter will cost less than $35/year in your case. What exactly are you expecting to save by not doing this?
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Follow the OLM or change once a year, which ever is shorter. In your case this will likely be once a year.
Think about this for a moment: a DIY oil change with the best synthetic oil and filter will cost less than $35/year in your case. What exactly are you expecting to save by not doing this?
I've eliminated most of what ordinarily would be a waste stream (used oil). And the money I'm not spending on oil and filters, not to mention time, can be used to perform more important preventative maintenance.
Not saying its a suitable thing for all engines (rules of thumb are very, very bad when it comes to this topic), but there are definitely engines in which the manufacturer's 'recommendations', particularly using good modern oils (in my case, Esso XD-3 0W-30) are laughably conservative.
Follow the OLM or change once a year, which ever is shorter. In your case this will likely be once a year.
Think about this for a moment: a DIY oil change with the best synthetic oil and filter will cost less than $35/year in your case. What exactly are you expecting to save by not doing this?
I've eliminated most of what ordinarily would be a waste stream (used oil). And the money I'm not spending on oil and filters, not to mention time, can be used to perform more important preventative maintenance.
Not saying its a suitable thing for all engines (rules of thumb are very, very bad when it comes to this topic), but there are definitely engines in which the manufacturer's 'recommendations', particularly using good modern oils (in my case, Esso XD-3 0W-30) are laughably conservative.
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