How far do you push your range?

What would your electric bill + gasoline bill be without the EVs? Are you saving tons of money?
I think this is a good point, if overall cost of ownership is important. My plan was minimizing recurring costs for the long term. An EV was a possibility in the solar panel roof project, but not the primary factor. Considering the high energy costs around here, you have to address the issue. You would be foolish not to.
 
I fill once a month to maximize benefit from Kroger fuel points. I'm thankful I don't have the brain damage that causes attempting to use all but the last 7 ounces of fuel in the tank. If I had to fill more often than once a month I'd be going at ~1/4 tank.
 
For Christmas we drove to my mom's for Christmas Eve, my aunt's for Christmas morning, then to my partners family for Christmas dinner. We did have to stop at an Electrify America station in between. Me being impatient I got just enough juice to get us through the day.

Note on that... if you have a Prologue/Blazer EV/Equinox EV/related vehicle, it tops out at 150kw, but you need to go to the 350kw charger to get those speeds. Due to amperage limitations, you'll only get a bit over 100kw on the 150kw stations. And on our charging session the 350kw chargers were in use by a BMW charging to 100% and a Bolt getting like 50kw so we were stuck on the 150kw chargers. Hence why I didn't want to get any more juice than required. Our local EA station is 2x 350 and 2x 150. I have the Tesla Supercharger adapter, but it was in the Bolt, which was at home, and picking it up would have taken an extra 15 minutes, so we opted to just deal with the 150kw EA station.

Anyway, we got home with about 10 miles left (once you shut the car off, it tells you the actual miles to E, not just LOW). I hate that all GM EVs do this LOW thing. My Bolt is the same way. I think 15mi is the cutoff point. I'd rather have the estimated mileage even if its like 3 miles vs just LOW. Because the difference between 14 miles to E and 2 miles to E is a big deal depending on your situation and if it just says LOW how do you know how desperate you really are? The initial "Charge Vehicle Soon" notifications is at 30 miles. I would prefer a warning at 50 miles, 25 miles, 10 miles, 5 miles, etc. vs just one at 30mi and then at 15mi it flips out.

If I remember right, at the same time it went from 15mi to E to LOW, I had got this "Reduced Acceleration" message along with a flashing turtle icon. I wonder what it really does, but I was going like 60mph when it went into this mode. It was VERY obvious. The entire vehicle jerked for a second. I'm wonder if it disconnected the rear motor and made it FWD only? Does anyone know how this works?

I really need better charging at home. We share a single level 1 charger (normal 120V wall outlet) across two EVs. If we had proper home charging, we could have recharged fully between Christmas Eve and Christmas day and wouldn't have had to go charge at EA. We make it work, but it's a little frustrating. Oh, and our PG&E bill was like $700 last month. I hate PG&E. Maybe @JeffKeryk can run a line from his solar panels to our house? ;)

Anyone else here with an EV let it get down pretty low? I still love the car btw. Super comfy even after what felt like a day full of driving.

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That's odd that it does that it doesn't give actual miles. Even the tiny Fiat 500e gives miles, and it's not really useful for much more than around town. Is there an update or menu option to force it to display the miles?
 
I have taken my Mach E below 20% quite a few times. However, most of the time I charge it every other Saturday while the sun is shining brightly on the solar panels. It is usually between 40 and 50 percent. I have taken it up to Las Vegas a few times. Going up I get better mileage than coming back. So, even though range looks very good when I head back, watching the range decrease so fast is a little nerve wracking. As I get close to Kingman, I can relax more.
 
Just how important is it to battery life to keep it between 20% and 80% charged?
Is say 10% to 90% really much worse for the battery?
 
Just how important is it to battery life to keep it between 20% and 80% charged?
Is say 10% to 90% really much worse for the battery?
I'm not sure we have the data to answer that. But recent studies have been promising, at least as compared to the early EVs.
I know the early Telsa Model S had poor battery life, but that has changed.
The early Nissan Leaf batteries offered terrible battery life.

I charge to 80% unless I am going further; then I may charge to 95%.
 
I'm not sure we have the data to answer that. But recent studies have been promising, at least as compared to the early EVs.
I know the early Telsa Model S had poor battery life, but that has changed.
The early Nissan Leaf batteries offered terrible battery life.

I charge to 80% unless I am going further; then I may charge to 95%.

Wife's EV is a 2022 Leaf with the larger 62 kwh battery, purchased used, last week.
 
Just how important is it to battery life to keep it between 20% and 80% charged?
Is say 10% to 90% really much worse for the battery?
I don't think it necessarily hurts doing that if it's not left sitting at 10% or 90% regularly. I've never charged past 80% until the trip I took recently and with the cold I've been charging to 85%-95% to leave more buffer when I'm parked back at the hotel. One of them was a Supercharger, but I knew I wasn't going to make it back to the car by the time it hit 80% while I was in a store so I removed the 80% limiter and left with 87% on that one. I level 2 charged to 95% two days ago just to leave the car on the charger in the extreme cold so it didn't take so long to warm up the battery when I left work.

None of that was necessary of course, but I had the option so it didn't hurt to top it up which kept it warm with the -19F I've dealt with the last two days.
 
I’ve never gone above 80% or below 18% and only charge at home. Someday I’m sure I’ll get below 18% but it’s not likely in my daily use.
 
I fill once a month to maximize benefit from Kroger fuel points. I'm thankful I don't have the brain damage that causes attempting to use all but the last 7 ounces of fuel in the tank. If I had to fill more often than once a month I'd be going at ~1/4 tank.

Interesting but this the EV forum and this thread is about electricity.....

So is the 80% charge to prolong battery life still a thing even with advances in battery tech, or is it like the old OCI of 3000 miles no matter what?
 
What would your electric bill + gasoline bill be without the EVs? Are you saving tons of money?

It depends greatly on your gasoline and electricity prices. In AZ you won’t save much with an EV but in British Columbia, Canada, gasoline is expensive (about $4.50 per us gallon) and electricity is very cheap ($0.05 to 0.10 usd per kWh depending on time of day) therefore I am saving significantly with my Prius Prime Phev versus a gas car.

Also, charging an EV at a commercial charging station is typically more expensive than gasoline.
 
It depends greatly on your gasoline and electricity prices. In AZ you won’t save much with an EV but in British Columbia, Canada, gasoline is expensive (about $4.50 per us gallon) and electricity is very cheap ($0.05 to 0.10 usd per kWh depending on time of day) therefore I am saving significantly with my Prius Prime Phev versus a gas car.

Also, charging an EV at a commercial charging station is typically more expensive than gasoline.


BC also has some free charging stations.
Wife pays 0 to charge her Leaf.
 
It depends greatly on your gasoline and electricity prices. In AZ you won’t save much with an EV but in British Columbia, Canada gasoline is expensive (about $4.50 per us gallon) and electricity is very cheap ($0.05 to 0.10 usd per kWh depending on time of day) therefore I am saving significantly with my Prius Prime Phev versus a gas car.

Also, charging an EV at a commercial charging station is typically more expensive than gasoline.
Here in Arizona I save since home electricity is still cheaper than gasoline. Also, since I only charge on sunny weekends, I am charging with even cheaper solar power. I have had my Mach E just over three years and still have never charged it anywhere except at home.

I think a chargeable hybrid like the Prius Prime makes more sense than either an EV or an ICE. You can reasonably take it on long trips. I cannot imagine going on a trip in my Mach E and spending all of my time waiting for it to charge. My TDI works great for trips.
 
Interesting but this the EV forum and this thread is about electricity.....

So is the 80% charge to prolong battery life still a thing even with advances in battery tech, or is it like the old OCI of 3000 miles no matter what?
I guess I should have modified for EV. When I was seriously considering I planned to operate in the 80-20 range pretty much exclusively with the exception of prior knowledge of upcoming long range use in which case I'd let it charge to >95% and depending on most convenience run it down to 10-12%. So I guess in that case I'd be thankful to not feel the need to prove something by using all but the last 700 yards of range vs. 7 ounces of fuel.
 
Interesting but this the EV forum and this thread is about electricity.....

So is the 80% charge to prolong battery life still a thing even with advances in battery tech, or is it like the old OCI of 3000 miles no matter what?
It's the nature of lithium-based battery chemistries. They don't like to be left at high charge states for long periods of time. It's not really an issue for daily driving, because unless you have some crazy 1% edge case where you're doing 200+ miles per day, you won't use the full capacity of the battery. On road trips, fast charging above 80% slows down substantially, so most people depart around that charge level.
The only time charging to 100% really comes into play is when you're planning to leave on road trip, because you would charge to 100% overnight ahead of the departure. But even in that situation the battery impact is minimal because you're not leaving the vehicle at 100% for a long period of time. Even my 2017 Focus only lost like 8% over nearly 80,000 miles of driving with a full charge every day. The manufacturers actually leave a buffer on the top and bottom of the pack, so even though it says 100% it's not really at the max voltage for the battery. The Focus probably would have experienced less degradation if there was an option to cap the charge at 80%.
 
I have taken my Mach E below 20% quite a few times. However, most of the time I charge it every other Saturday while the sun is shining brightly on the solar panels. It is usually between 40 and 50 percent. I have taken it up to Las Vegas a few times. Going up I get better mileage than coming back. So, even though range looks very good when I head back, watching the range decrease so fast is a little nerve wracking. As I get close to Kingman, I can relax more.

Sounds like elevation at work. But that would only be a small part of why there a range decrease.
 
It's the nature of lithium-based battery chemistries. They don't like to be left at high charge states for long periods of time. It's not really an issue for daily driving, because unless you have some crazy 1% edge case where you're doing 200+ miles per day, you won't use the full capacity of the battery. On road trips, fast charging above 80% slows down substantially, so most people depart around that charge level.
The only time charging to 100% really comes into play is when you're planning to leave on road trip, because you would charge to 100% overnight ahead of the departure. But even in that situation the battery impact is minimal because you're not leaving the vehicle at 100% for a long period of time. Even my 2017 Focus only lost like 8% over nearly 80,000 miles of driving with a full charge every day. The manufacturers actually leave a buffer on the top and bottom of the pack, so even though it says 100% it's not really at the max voltage for the battery. The Focus probably would have experienced less degradation if there was an option to cap the charge at 80%.

The thing is that there really is no such thing as 0% or 100%. It's all really just voltage cutoff points for charging and discharging to balance capacity vs longevity. I've heard it said that with most lithium-ion battery electronics, the "capacity" could probably be doubled if the user is willing to accept that the battery will probably be toast after maybe 25 charge-discharge cycles. Obviously since EV batteries are a huge expense, there's an incentive to maximize the longevity at the cost of capacity/range.

However, Tesla recommends leaving the charge setting at 100% for most of their vehicles with LiFePO4 batteries. They don't for other battery chemistries.
 
The thing is that there really is no such thing as 0% or 100%. It's all really just voltage cutoff points for charging and discharging to balance capacity vs longevity. I've heard it said that with most lithium-ion battery electronics, the "capacity" could probably be doubled if the user is willing to accept that the battery will probably be toast after maybe 25 charge-discharge cycles. Obviously since EV batteries are a huge expense, there's an incentive to maximize the longevity at the cost of capacity/range.

However, Tesla recommends leaving the charge setting at 100% for most of their vehicles with LiFePO4 batteries. They don't for other battery chemistries.
That is correct. I have a 45 kWh LFP battery bank to supplement my solar system. The nominal voltage of each cell is 3.2V, but the max recommended charge is 3.65V. I think the absolute peak is 4.2V. Once they near full charge, the internal resistance really goes up. Charging over 3.65V is possible, but will reduce the lifespan of the battery. The crazy thing with this chemistries is that at .2 or .1 C discharge rates they'll see for solar, nothing will degrade them faster than than like calendar aging. Because they are cycled daily, they don't stay at peak voltage very long.

The reason Tesla recommends daily charging to 100% is that the cells have be balanced often. With LFP, the discharge curve is so flat that it's very difficult to discern the state of charge anywhere in the middle of the cell capacity. Between something like 10% and 90%, there's barely any change in the cell voltage. The only way to stay abreast of the charge level is max the voltage, then track how much energy is consumed. Because the cells exhibit varying levels of internal resistance, capacity, etc. and are combined into packs, they have have to be fully charged periodically often to accurately measure the state of charge. Otherwise they become unbalanced and the weakest cell will control the entire charge/discharge cycle.
 
Sounds like elevation at work. But that would only be a small part of why there a range decrease.
Up to Las Vegas, actually Henderson, is basically down hill. So, back to Kingman is basically up hill. Also, the winds are often out of the south and that makes a difference both ways.
 
That is correct. I have a 45 kWh LFP battery bank to supplement my solar system. The nominal voltage of each cell is 3.2V, but the max recommended charge is 3.65V. I think the absolute peak is 4.2V. Once they near full charge, the internal resistance really goes up. Charging over 3.65V is possible, but will reduce the lifespan of the battery. The crazy thing with this chemistries is that at .2 or .1 C discharge rates they'll see for solar, nothing will degrade them faster than than like calendar aging. Because they are cycled daily, they don't stay at peak voltage very long.

The reason Tesla recommends daily charging to 100% is that the cells have be balanced often. With LFP, the discharge curve is so flat that it's very difficult to discern the state of charge anywhere in the middle of the cell capacity. Between something like 10% and 90%, there's barely any change in the cell voltage. The only way to stay abreast of the charge level is max the voltage, then track how much energy is consumed. Because the cells exhibit varying levels of internal resistance, capacity, etc. and are combined into packs, they have have to be fully charged periodically often to accurately measure the state of charge. Otherwise they become unbalanced and the weakest cell will control the entire charge/discharge cycle.

I'm the one helping out my parents with their 2023 Model 3 RWD with an LiFePO4 battery. They're like "Don't bore us with the details - just do what you think works best" where I have access to their car's settings through the app. They live on a hill so I normally set it to 90% max charge (to take advantage of the regenerative braking), but then 100% once a week since they recommend 100% at least once a week. But they recommend leaving it at 100% all the time.

Some people wonder what's up when there's a temporary range increase surrounding an impending natural disaster such as a hurricane. Obviously that's based on a software limitation. I've certainly worked on electronics where we had all sorts of capabilities built into our product, but our customers could decide how much of those capabilities could be extended to the user with various settings. But absolutely a lot of people don't like it when they think there's something behind the hood that they have but aren't allowed to access because they didn't pay for it. But now there are subscriptions and or one-time fees to access features. Tesla navigation comes with satellite views with a subscription, but they give a teaser for new owners.
 
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