How Do Univ. ATF's Meet Many Specs.?

[doitmyself]

I've never been one to use anything but OEM specified ATF fluids, but I am considering going over the dark edge. I read about many people using Valvolene Max Life, and many other companies (including Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple) offer products that state "suitable for use" in many applications.

- How do these fluids meet the friction characteristics of different fluids? Or, is this not as important as I am led to believe?

- While the fluids appear to work well short term, does any evidence suggest that overall transmission life is shortened with extended use of these universal fluids?

In my case, I need an SP4-M fluid, which is covered by the brands mentioned above.

Thanks.

 

[tig1]

I have wondered if this spec thing is more of a scam than anything else. I have used Mobil 1 ATF for years in the Fusion and Mobil 1 ATF doesn't have the FNR-5 spec. that my Fusion calls for.

 

[CPB]

I think this is one of YMMV topics. I personally do not think there is enough money to be saved to risk anything but OE recommended fluid. Get the popcorn out and watch this fly!

 

[Jimzz]

Transmission fluid is just a hydraulic fluid. The differences between them have been minor for a long time. The biggest issue was the temp range/viscosity. When GM did not update their Dex3 many others had to make their own fluid for their spec range.

With Synthetic fluid the temp range can vary more greatly and not shear. Hence why a single fluid can cover many trans as it does not shear so its range will hold.

 

[khittner]

My '02 Camry has gotten to 260K miles, the last 146K on MaxLife ATF, and is still shifting smoothly, but I guess it might wear out sooner than if I'd stuck with T-IV. I'll never really know . . .

 

[3800Series]

They don't for the most part. It's more about a suitable middle ground. There are several fluids that require different viscosity grade and yet still fall under the universal umbrella.

 

[JTK]

How ever it's done, it still boils down the fact that the big names aren't going say their product is "suitable for use" for your Hyundai when it's not. There's no way they could assume that risk.

 

[The_Jeff]

Maxlife follows the dexron friction curve. The fluids it claims to cross over have a similar/ identical friction curve but slightly different specs for viscosity and longevity. So it covers Mercron, older Toyota, Volvo, etc.

Maxlife Dex would be horrible in a chrysler, ancient ford that takes type F, etc.

Jiffy lube has "conversion fluids" that supposedly fix the friction curve. Run screaming from this junk!

 

[Slick17601]

Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Transmission fluid is just a hydraulic fluid. The differences between them have been minor for a long time. The biggest issue was the temp range/viscosity. When GM did not update their Dex3 many others had to make their own fluid for their spec range.

With Synthetic fluid the temp range can vary more greatly and not shear. Hence why a single fluid can cover many trans as it does not shear so its range will hold.


Not necessarily, hydraulic systems don't have clutches. ATF needs to have the proper frictional properties for the clutches to work as designed.

 

[doitmyself]

Thank you everyone. What really stirred my curiosity is when I called around to about 8 local dealerships and they ALL use BG transmission fluids. One Jeep dealer said all they use are Valvolene transmission products (I assume Maxlife for many). And, even brands that are still under factory power train warranties (i.e. - Kia 10 year/100,000 miles) are using aftermarket universal fluids.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Thank you everyone. What really stirred my curiosity is when I called around to about 8 local dealerships and they ALL use BG transmission fluids. One Jeep dealer said all they use are Valvolene transmission products (I assume Maxlife for many). And, even brands that are still under factory power train warranties (i.e. - Kia 10 year/100,000 miles) are using aftermarket universal fluids.


That's exactly what I've experienced when asking aroud. They all sell OEM fluids by the quart, etc in their parts dept, but in the shop, use aftermarket fluid.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Thank you everyone. What really stirred my curiosity is when I called around to about 8 local dealerships and they ALL use BG transmission fluids. One Jeep dealer said all they use are Valvolene transmission products (I assume Maxlife for many). And, even brands that are still under factory power train warranties (i.e. - Kia 10 year/100,000 miles) are using aftermarket universal fluids.


That's exactly what I've experienced when asking aroud. They all sell OEM fluids by the quart, etc in their parts dept, but in the shop, use aftermarket fluid.


None of the dealerships I have worked at do that. Genuine bottled products only. But honestly, the manufacturer does not make the fluids.

 

[Hall]

For all anyone knows, many of these "specs" may be in name only. When Valvoline goes to a vehicle manufacturer to get the specs for a fluid spec, they sign an NDA and the manufacturer tells them "we're just using 'x' fluid".

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
The secret of Multi-Vehicle ATF's such as MaxLife or D4 or D6 or Amsoil ATF's is the mix of specialized friction modifier chemistry's which cover a spectrum of dynamic friction coefficients.


Broad Spectrum ATF

 

[Johnny2Bad]

It depends on the make/model of the automatic transmission in my experience. With the Mercedes or Chrysler automatics, I stay strictly within the OEM recommended oil. With a GM vehicle, any oil that claims to meet spec, including universal, is fine in my opinion. Some units are sensitive to the oil components, others are more forgiving.

Valvoline makes an ATF-4 for Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep applications.

 

[BrianF]

I think we overthink this. There are several people on this board, myself included who have used universal ATF's, even ones that are not licensed and have had no ill problems. We all get so worked up with this.

I have no issues now using a universal in my vehicles. Amsoil LV ATF is working great in my TB (4L60E). Co-op ATF SL worked great in my Ram 1500 (545RFE). I have several liters left over and will start using this ATF and then possibly PetroCan Duradrive in my Ram 3500 with the Aisin.

I like the idea of using Maxlife in ZF transmissions. Why should we get ripped off by the dealer for the magical ZF fluid?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Most of those specs are so close that it's possible to meet all of them at the same time

And don't forget, in many cases the new/recent ATF specs also supersede the previous thicker ATF standards (for example, Dexron VI supersedes Dexron III and is fully backwards-compatible)

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
The secret of Multi-Vehicle ATF's such as MaxLife or D4 or D6 or Amsoil ATF's is the mix of specialized friction modifier chemistry's which cover a spectrum of dynamic friction coefficients.


Broad Spectrum ATF


Thank you MolaKule. I completely missed that recent thread.

It appears that the friction dynamics are covered by "specialized friction modifier".

How important are viscosity differences between the newer OEM ATF fluids and multi-vehicle ATF's?

A number of the OEM ATF's have kinematic viscosity @110C in the area of 5.5 +/- while I've seen some multi-vehicle at 6 to 7 +/-? The multi vehicle kinematic viscosity at 40C is similarly a bit higher. Will different viscosity specifications cause issues with wear, mpg, smoothness??

Thank you.

 

[Donald]

Well Amsoil has a few ATFs not one. If Amsoil or Redline or M1 say that a particular ATF will work in your vehicle, then you can be pretty darn sure it will.

I would stay clear of any place that adds a magic potion to ATF that makes it perfect for your vehicle.

 

[supton]

Don't many of the OEM's have their own specification for motor oil? MB has 229 something, VW had 501, 505, 506, 507, etc. Point is, each have their own specifications for what oil is required. And eventually it seems the oil you buy at Walmart lists all of these specifications on it.