House flooded then Tesla burns it to the ground.

Ws6 said:
Nah.
VW makes an eGolf. It'll happen.
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They do. It's the ID.3 which is in production elsewhere and the GTI is announced, but not for the US.

The reason why the GTI isn't expected for the US is that it's based on the size of the Polo. It's smaller than our Golf here. VW says they will consider it, but for now it's unlikely.
 
Torrid said:
They do. It's the ID.3 which is in production elsewhere and the GTI is announced, but not for the US.

The reason why the GTI isn't expected for the US is that it's based on the size of the Polo. It's smaller than our Golf here. VW says they will consider it, but for now it's unlikely.
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That said, we don't really have hot hatches in America. Corolla GR is it. This isn't an EV thing, is is a US market preference.
 
Ws6 said:
That said, we don't really have hot hatches in America. Corolla GR is it. This isn't an EV thing, is is a US market preference.
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It makes it more difficult since they're meant to be based on normal cars. Civic Type R is a loose interpretation of a hatch that still is based on the regular Civic and is a pretty good car. Golf R/GTI seems to be trending away from what it used to be. To be honest I don't love the GR Corolla. I think it's wildly overpriced for a cheap interior. It's also had massive quality problems that have resulted in multiple blown motors. It's an interesting car though. It just has no business commanding Golf R money. The Golf is just the better all around vehicle. I still don't think the new Golf is the best version, which is why I haven't yet decided to buy a new one.

Hyundai would be smart to make another hatch using the bones of the Elantra N, but like we've mentioned here hatches just aren't popular here. Everyone has moved into crossovers that I have no interest in.
 
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billt460 said:
Try what again? Making myself believe they're just fine and dandy, because the top burned and not the bottom? :ROFLMAO:
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You keep picking rare examples of fires. It's an odd fixation. Yet I bet you drive a vehicle that doesn't have the latest safety designs and scores lower on IIHS and NCAP crash tests, and auto collision casualty is much more likely than auto fire casualty. Likewise, gas and electric home fire is much more common than car in garage home fire.

So let's just be honest and admit that you're denigrating the concept based on rare and debatable issues instead of just saying "I do not prefer them." Which is much more intellectually honest.
 
Ws6 said:
You keep picking rare examples of fires. It's an odd fixation......
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No. It's called reality. These manufacturers, (of which there are many), are not telling the consumers of these fireworks to park them outside, and at least 50 feet away from buildings, because they don't spontaneously combust into fireballs without any warning.
 
billt460 said:
No. It's called reality. These manufacturers, (of which there are many), are not telling the consumers of these fireworks to park them outside, and at least 50 feet away from buildings, because they don't spontaneously combust into fireballs without any warning.
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Like I said, you've fixated on a rare thing. I literally post a car I saw yesterday, on fire, maybe unknown to the driver, and nothing...but you saw something on Facebook and now it's a big concern...why. Because of bias confirmation. Just admit you don't want an EV or don't like them or whatever.

Here. Even the lovable Toyota camry is a fire risk. It even burned someone. But I'm not going to run around saying "gas cars are bad, a guy got burned by a Camry...!" That's absurd.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...ions-of-vehicles-for-window-switch-fire-risk/

I bet you don't even know if your vehicles airbag is included in this...yet dozens of people are dead or damaged because of it.

https://www.carfax.com/blog/urgent-recalls

Again...you're justifying a preference with an odd fixation. Just speak your heart on it, no need for the justification.
 
Ws6 said:
Saw this today. Fire right under the gas tank. Looked fun. I was on my way elsewhere, so didn't follow them to see how it played out.
View attachment 245255
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Why not try to at least get their attention for something that involved regardless of your destination? I recently flagged a guy down to let him know a rear tire was quite low.
 
Ws6 said:
Like I said, you've fixated on a rare thing. I literally post a car I saw yesterday, on fire, maybe unknown to the driver, and nothing...but you saw something on Facebook and now it's a big concern...why. Because of bias confirmation. Just admit you don't want an EV or don't like them or whatever.

Here. Even the lovable Toyota camry is a fire risk. It even burned someone. But I'm not going to run around saying "gas cars are bad, a guy got burned by a Camry...!" That's absurd.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...ions-of-vehicles-for-window-switch-fire-risk/

I bet you don't even know if your vehicles airbag is included in this...yet dozens of people are dead or damaged because of it.

https://www.carfax.com/blog/urgent-recalls

Again...you're justifying a preference with an odd fixation. Just speak your heart on it, no need for the justification.
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EV's are not even 2% of the vehicles owned and licensed in this country. Not even 2%. Yet in spite of that, look at all the problems they're having with fire related issues. And most all of these EV fires are spontaneous. They just happen.

After flooding... After an accident.... After recharging in a closed up garage. Or else just sitting in one. People aren't doing things "wrong" to cause it. Most ICE fires are caused by something happening.

Even if EV's had the range they advertise, and could be recharged as fast as an ICE vehicle can be refueled, most people would remain fearful of the battery fire problem enough to avoid buying one. At least at present.

And it's an honest and reasonable fear for someone to have. And it's not just EV's. Yeah, granted their fires are far worse, and there are more of them, but Lithium Ion batteries are fire prone PERIOD.

Laptops, cell phones, electric bikes and scooters, hell even the 787 was / were / are ALL affected by the same problems that are caused by these type of batteries spontaneously overheating and blazing up out of nowhere.

Samsung has recalled phones because of it. So has Dell some time back with their laptops. People aren't just making this stuff up for cheap sensationalism. It's happening enough to induce A LOT of recalls. Which cost corporations $Billions$.

In time they may or may not be able to fix these issues. But even if they do, it's going to take a very long while before the public regains their trust in these things. If they ever do. Even then, assuming they do, they're still not very practical for most people.

Which is proven over and over by people who will retain ownership of at least one ICE vehicle in their personal fleet. Simply because it can do the things that EV's can't.... And most likely never will be able to.
 
billt460 said:
EV's are not even 2% of the vehicles owned and licensed in this country. Not even 2%. Yet in spite of that, look at all the problems they're having with fire related issues. And most all of these EV fires are spontaneous. They just happen.

After flooding... After an accident.... After recharging in a closed up garage. Or else just sitting in one. People aren't doing things "wrong" to cause it. Most ICE fires are caused by something happening.

Even if EV's had the range they advertise, and could be recharged as fast as an ICE vehicle can be refueled, most people would remain fearful of the battery fire problem enough to avoid buying one. At least at present.

And it's an honest and reasonable fear for someone to have. And it's not just EV's. Yeah, granted their fires are far worse, and there are more of them, but Lithium Ion batteries are fire prone PERIOD.

Laptops, cell phones, electric bikes and scooters, hell even the 787 was / were / are ALL affected by the same problems that are caused by these type of batteries spontaneously overheating and blazing up out of nowhere.

Samsung has recalled phones because of it. So has Dell some time back with their laptops. People aren't just making this stuff up for cheap sensationalism. It's happening enough to induce A LOT of recalls. Which cost corporations $Billions$.

In time they may or may not be able to fix these issues. But even if they do, it's going to take a very long while before the public regains their trust in these things. If they ever do. Even then, assuming they do, they're still not very practical for most people.

Which is proven over and over by people who will retain ownership of at least one ICE vehicle in their personal fleet. Simply because it can do the things that EV's can't.... And most likely never will be able to.
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I agree with everything you said, but your last line, maybe, maybe not. At some point the EV will be dialed in, probably not in our lifetime though, and w/o lithium ion due to the problems associated with it. They'll figure out something better, and safer. In the meantime they should try and figure out something to make putting an EV fire out faster, safer, less costly, and use less resources and manpower.
 
demarpaint said:
I agree with everything you said, but your last line, maybe, maybe not. At some point the EV will be dialed in, probably not in our lifetime though, and w/o lithium ion due to the problems associated with it. They'll figure out something better, and safer. In the meantime they should try and figure out something to make putting an EV fire out faster, safer, less costly, and use less resources and manpower.
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Lithium Ion was / is dead on arrival. There isn't enough Lithium in the world to end ALL of ICE, and replace it with EV's powered by such.

And I won't even get into the environmental destruction caused by Lithium mining on such a grand worldwide scale, in order to have enough for the world to be EV powered by them. And people thought 50's and 60's strip mining was bad.

Electric cars have been around since the 1800's. They have come and gone in popularity several times over. We are witnessing the latest attempt. This time with Lithium Ion batteries. Like all the rest, it's temporary.

In time Lithium Ion will fail just like carburetors finally did in ICE vehicles. It will only last until they find something much better. And that's not happening in our lifetime. And perhaps not in the next lifetime either.....

And as always, governments cannot legislate technology. Regardless of how much they try.
 
demarpaint said:
Ok valid points. I don't worry about car fires either, and some car designs are better than others. My comments were on the topic at hand. I was dragged into off topic ICE vs EV fires. My point was pretty simple, floods don't cause ICE cars to burn, and the science of lithium ion batteries is the problem at hand, two facts. A better design may very well reduce the risk, but the science will always remain the same.
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Sometimes it’s hard to stay on-point in a thread. Like you I don’t understand the push back.

It’s irrefutable that salt water submerged EV batteries present a significant fire hazard. So much so Tesla mentions it.

It’s undeniable that lithium battery fires are very hazardous, a bear to put out and certainly cannot be controlled by a simple fire extinguisher.

Hopefully technology will solve the problem or a new power source because there are only about 3 million EVs on the road, most all new late model compared to 297 million gasoline and diesel.

Of which 200,000 EVs are in the state of Florida and we know of 3 lithium fires caused by simple saltwater flooding this last few weeks. It’s an issue along coastal areas right now. Not only that but these cars are new, not 15 or 20 year old clunkers. It’s a potential powder keg.

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10962
 
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honeeagle said:
Ok so salt water bad, what about the northern car exposed to salt water all winter ?
Kinda bad?
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I personally at this time don’t think salt spray is an issue unless there is damage to a battery pack that could be an issue. Just not enough EVs on the road and we won’t know until EVs get maybe 15 years or more years old. Right now they are all new.

As stated by Tesla, only water submerged EVs are a concern
 
honeeagle said:
Ok so salt water bad, what about the northern car exposed to salt water all winter ?
Kinda bad?
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VERY BAD. But not so much from a safety point of view. But from a point of premature destruction through corrosion. Today it's somewhat less because of things like Stainless Steel exhaust, and a lot of composite / plastic body panels and parts.

But the frame and undercarriage really suffer. And it's all but a futile effort to prevent it on a daily driver. About all you can hope for is to delay it somewhat.

I remember reading in a lot of boating literature, they said a good rule of thumb, was an outboard motor will last roughly half as long operated in salt water, than it will in freshwater. Salt is BAD.
 
I remember the 70's,car rocker panels rusted thru in 3 years.The only rust through now days are the cars/trucks driven on gravels roads.
So how careful will they have to be in a rural setting?
Accumulated damage will be a factor some day.
 
honeeagle said:
Ok so salt water bad, what about the northern car exposed to salt water all winter ?
Kinda bad?
Click to expand...
Time will tell, if I had to venture a guess it will probably become problematic as the car ages. Especially in areas where the roads are poor.
 
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