Honda's New Pickup
- Thread starter Jelly
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Ya nothing beats true low range in a 4X4 with locker rear differential, something Honda will never have.
Honda builds nice light vehicles. Theyre way out of their element (no pun) with this one. Its an Oddyssey minivan with ugly plastic panels made from 80% consumer recyclable material thats had the rear end hacked up. At least it might be able to get a trailer moving if you rev it past 8000rpm
It is ugly, ugly, ugly!
I was just reading a thread on ROC about what other vehicles owners considered other than the Ridge, most were considering another SUV.
If you need a real truck, the Ridgeline is not for you.
I still can't get over the price on a V-8 Tundra regular cab with tow package on carsdirect.com for $17k. I believe the V-8 Tundra has the same engine and transmission as in a $68k Lexus LX470!!! That's hilarious.
Well, after all this, my druthers are a Porsche 911S and when I need firewood, I'll pick up the phone and call for a load to be delivered and stacked
I was just reading a thread on ROC about what other vehicles owners considered other than the Ridge, most were considering another SUV.
If you need a real truck, the Ridgeline is not for you.
I still can't get over the price on a V-8 Tundra regular cab with tow package on carsdirect.com for $17k. I believe the V-8 Tundra has the same engine and transmission as in a $68k Lexus LX470!!! That's hilarious.
Well, after all this, my druthers are a Porsche 911S and when I need firewood, I'll pick up the phone and call for a load to be delivered and stacked
When I first started looking at BITOG before I became a member, I thought for a while that the site was actually called BIGOT........ I always got a laugh out of it.
I swear, after reading this thread and others, I'm beginning to believe I got the name right the first time.
I swear, after reading this thread and others, I'm beginning to believe I got the name right the first time.
RKBA
Junior Member
Member # 8219
posted February 21, 2006 08:23 AM
"While the terms AWD and 4WD can get a little slippery, jmacmaster is pretty much spot on. "
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Spot on? The guy said that the computer controls which wheel gets power. That's traction control!
The braking system is used to limit a slipping tire. That's not how AWD works. OMG...
You know what, whatever dudes.
Getting back on topic, the Ridgeline is a decent "vehicle" and I don't mind it's looks. If it had a better engine(i.e. V8) for towing my needs I would consider it (hint, hint, Honda).
Junior Member
Member # 8219
posted February 21, 2006 08:23 AM
"While the terms AWD and 4WD can get a little slippery, jmacmaster is pretty much spot on. "
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Spot on? The guy said that the computer controls which wheel gets power. That's traction control!
The braking system is used to limit a slipping tire. That's not how AWD works. OMG...
You know what, whatever dudes.
Getting back on topic, the Ridgeline is a decent "vehicle" and I don't mind it's looks. If it had a better engine(i.e. V8) for towing my needs I would consider it (hint, hint, Honda).
The ridgeline will be getting a v8 in 2008. Honda is/has designed a v8 for production vehicles. I don't remember what other vehicles will be getting it. A sedan and MDX i think. Google honda v8 and you will get alot of info. If honda designed it to look like a "normal" pickup it would be under fire from the press. Their understanding of the buyer lead them to design something off center to create it's own niche which is hondas way. They will never market it against lets say a nissan titan because the titan is superior in every category. The titan is a truck and the ridgeline is what people use to bring gardening crap home from the nursery.
You obviously didn't get the point. Caddilac performance isn't a niche market, it's an attempt to lure avid BMW buyers away. The Titan ir like the Tundra going one up on there current model like of just midsize trucks. The Highlander serves a need that a lot of people want FWD/AWD SUV only because they get better mileage then the 4Runner. The point is I could buy several other vehicles that do what the Ridgeline does better. The XUV being one even if it is discontiued, the Baja if I wanted better mileage and a smaller vehicle. I regular truck with a crew cab if I was really serious about hauling & towing. The Ridgeline doesn't do all those well, it just does them satisfactory. A comprimise in all areas. The ride is also not all that great, it's like any other SUV. The independent rear helps a bit but now you pay the price in durability.
I would not buy a Honda powered vehicle on the fact that they all are gutless. Them making a consumer V8 is laughable, torque will probaley peak at 6000 rpm.
Also this AWD issue, the only reason is does ok in the sand like was said is traction control. It uses the brakes to transfer power around without you knowing the better. Also suspension design, other SUV's & trucks still use solid axles which limit spreading their load out. Also everytime you hit a bump in a solid axle you raise the other side off the ground a bit if it only hits on that side. Independent suspension wins in that respect.
AWD is full time 4WD, they are one in the same, 4 wheels distrubuting power. You can use 4WD on dry pavement easily, your tires will just not like you for it.
"The world of 4WD and AWD systems has become very complex. I HAVE done the research, over a period of many years. Anyone thinking of buying a 4WD or AWD vehicle should inform themselves of exactly how the system in the vehicle is designed and built, how it works, and when it can and cannot be used."
I agree. With a traditional 4wd system you have a rear wheel drive vehicle as a default, and need to be careful about using 4wd in high traction situations. This isn't a problem in mud, on sand, snow, etc., but can be in mixed traction like patch ice. I wish that my tuck had locking hubs so that I could engage 4wd drive and unlock the rear wheels, making a front wheel drive vehicle for low loads in mixed traction situations. 4wd is also really only 2wd in a worst case situation, which is why lockers are prefeerred in bad traction condtions. I would also like a selectable locker, but one isn't offered yet.
AWD is nice for lighter vehicles, but mileage suffers (friends with Subarus say that they don't get much better mileage than I do in 3/4 ton 4wd diesel pickup) and the system isn't seen for handling heavier loads.
4wd, AWD, or eleventeen wheel drive doesn't mean squat without adequate tires.
Gotsa takes your picks and be happy :^)
I agree. With a traditional 4wd system you have a rear wheel drive vehicle as a default, and need to be careful about using 4wd in high traction situations. This isn't a problem in mud, on sand, snow, etc., but can be in mixed traction like patch ice. I wish that my tuck had locking hubs so that I could engage 4wd drive and unlock the rear wheels, making a front wheel drive vehicle for low loads in mixed traction situations. 4wd is also really only 2wd in a worst case situation, which is why lockers are prefeerred in bad traction condtions. I would also like a selectable locker, but one isn't offered yet.
AWD is nice for lighter vehicles, but mileage suffers (friends with Subarus say that they don't get much better mileage than I do in 3/4 ton 4wd diesel pickup) and the system isn't seen for handling heavier loads.
4wd, AWD, or eleventeen wheel drive doesn't mean squat without adequate tires.
Gotsa takes your picks and be happy :^)
I'm not much of a fan of Honda's Ridgeline but if they want to build it, more power to them. Competition is always good for the consumer. I do like the fact that there is many more trucks to look at than there was 20 years ago.
I test drove one last month while looking for new trucks. It had a lot of nice features. It felt more like driving a SUV to me. For me the proud price they are asking I wanted a little more motor and slightly more traditional looks.
I test drove one last month while looking for new trucks. It had a lot of nice features. It felt more like driving a SUV to me. For me the proud price they are asking I wanted a little more motor and slightly more traditional looks.
jmacmaster
Member # 9172
posted February 21, 2006 10:46 PM
" However, with the "traditional", old style, 4WD system power is not sent from one axle, or one wheel, to the other axle or to other wheels when slippage occurs on an axle or wheel .
THAT'S TRACTION CONTROL! and has nothing to do with AWD or even 4WD.
Member # 9172
posted February 21, 2006 10:46 PM
" However, with the "traditional", old style, 4WD system power is not sent from one axle, or one wheel, to the other axle or to other wheels when slippage occurs on an axle or wheel .
THAT'S TRACTION CONTROL! and has nothing to do with AWD or even 4WD.
I think Zaedock and Jmacmaster are partially right and wrong.
When you have AWD it means that you are unable to drive in 2WD. The 4 wheels are always engaged.
As far as distributing torque to the wheels there are different systems and I am not sure how Honda's work. However, with AWD there is a type of limited slip differential in the transfer case that will appropriately distribute torque between the front and rear wheel. As far as distributing torque between the left an right wheels the vehicle may or may not have limited slip differentials for the front and/or rear wheels. I believe Jeeps system includes limited slip clutches in the transfer case, the front and the rear differentials.
Traction control is a completely different thing Zaedock. Traction control is a system that will apply braking to individual wheel through the use of the ABS braking system. It also may include throttle control.
When you have AWD it means that you are unable to drive in 2WD. The 4 wheels are always engaged.
As far as distributing torque to the wheels there are different systems and I am not sure how Honda's work. However, with AWD there is a type of limited slip differential in the transfer case that will appropriately distribute torque between the front and rear wheel. As far as distributing torque between the left an right wheels the vehicle may or may not have limited slip differentials for the front and/or rear wheels. I believe Jeeps system includes limited slip clutches in the transfer case, the front and the rear differentials.
Traction control is a completely different thing Zaedock. Traction control is a system that will apply braking to individual wheel through the use of the ABS braking system. It also may include throttle control.
Winston, I know what traction control is. I am an ASE cert. mechanic. Please read all the previous posts.
Here is a previous post from jmacmaster. In this post, he describes Traction Control, not any type of drive system (he descibes how he thinks AWD works).
AWD, regardless of how it distributes power up front, is still 4WD. The term "AWD" is a marketing phrase. Just like GM's "Posi" limited slip differential.
jmacmaster
Member # 9172
posted February 21, 2006 12:41 AM
"The main difference is that with AWD, when any of the 4 wheels begins to slip a computer immediately notices it and takes enough power from that wheel so that the wheel stops slipping . The wheel still gets power to it, but only enough to make it stop slipping and start grabbing again. The power taken from a slipping wheel is transferred to a wheel or wheels that are not slipping. This does not happen with 4WD. That is why AWD give you better traction. "
Here is a previous post from jmacmaster. In this post, he describes Traction Control, not any type of drive system (he descibes how he thinks AWD works).
AWD, regardless of how it distributes power up front, is still 4WD. The term "AWD" is a marketing phrase. Just like GM's "Posi" limited slip differential.
jmacmaster
Member # 9172
posted February 21, 2006 12:41 AM
"The main difference is that with AWD, when any of the 4 wheels begins to slip a computer immediately notices it and takes enough power from that wheel so that the wheel stops slipping . The wheel still gets power to it, but only enough to make it stop slipping and start grabbing again. The power taken from a slipping wheel is transferred to a wheel or wheels that are not slipping. This does not happen with 4WD. That is why AWD give you better traction. "
This thread shows that we all like to argue over the stupidest things.
id like to clear up a couple misconceptions here guys. the old subarus of the 80's had 4 or 5 speed gear boxes wityh an additional shift lever which engaged 2wd, 4wd, and 4wd low.
these old fashoned drive types had no center differential, so if you drove on pavement in 4wd and tried to turn you would get tyre skidding and such between the front and rear tyres.
in all honesty, a 4wd system wiyth no center diff has better traction in extreme conditions. problem is you cant have fulltime 4wd with no center diff. its just too abusive on pavement.
almost all 4wd/awd systems today have a center differential. this solves the problems that the earlier subarus had with running in 4wd on the street.
so just what is a modern subaru? it has 3 viscous differentials, which is a type of limited slip. it has full time 4wd, which they call awd.
with all that said, you can take any subaru in existance and jack up 1 tire. leave the shifter in gear and run the motor. what will happen is the tire off the ground spins and the 3 remaining dont spin. dont believe me? go try it sometime. i tried it on my dads 96 legacy outback and that 4th tire spins alot when taken off the ground.
the only way to get around this issue of having a center diff is to have it be a locker, or gone all together, or some kind of limited slip system that is very strong.
the old subarus solved this by not having a center diff. if you jacked up 1 tire on an 80's sub and tried to spin it, the car would lurch foreward.
these old fashoned drive types had no center differential, so if you drove on pavement in 4wd and tried to turn you would get tyre skidding and such between the front and rear tyres.
in all honesty, a 4wd system wiyth no center diff has better traction in extreme conditions. problem is you cant have fulltime 4wd with no center diff. its just too abusive on pavement.
almost all 4wd/awd systems today have a center differential. this solves the problems that the earlier subarus had with running in 4wd on the street.
so just what is a modern subaru? it has 3 viscous differentials, which is a type of limited slip. it has full time 4wd, which they call awd.
with all that said, you can take any subaru in existance and jack up 1 tire. leave the shifter in gear and run the motor. what will happen is the tire off the ground spins and the 3 remaining dont spin. dont believe me? go try it sometime. i tried it on my dads 96 legacy outback and that 4th tire spins alot when taken off the ground.
the only way to get around this issue of having a center diff is to have it be a locker, or gone all together, or some kind of limited slip system that is very strong.
the old subarus solved this by not having a center diff. if you jacked up 1 tire on an 80's sub and tried to spin it, the car would lurch foreward.
I drove a Ridgeline a few months ago. I don't mind the odd appearance and think it's a very well executed light-duty pickup with lots of versatility. Lacking a low range and locking diffs means it is unsuitable for off-road use, so I eliminated it from consideration. Also, I think there's not quite enough truck for the money. (There's a new Jeep p/u supposedly on the way which has a 2.8L turbodiesel. That will be worth checking out).
speedtc
Member # 10535
posted February 22, 2006 12:49 AM
"This thread shows that we all like to argue over the stupidest things. "
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Amen brother. I was just trying to add clarity and explanation. It blew up in my face.
Oh well. AWD, 4WD, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, does it?
It's Miller Time.
Member # 10535
posted February 22, 2006 12:49 AM
"This thread shows that we all like to argue over the stupidest things. "
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Amen brother. I was just trying to add clarity and explanation. It blew up in my face.
Oh well. AWD, 4WD, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, does it?
It's Miller Time.
'Traction control' as commonly used when describing a vehicle seems to refer to a system which senses wheel slip, and in an attempt to assure vehicle control they modulate braking and/or applied power. One symptom would be mashing the throttle when on ice with poor tires for the situation, having little wheel slip, the vehicle stays pointed in the right direction, but you don't go anywhere :^)
It's seems to be more sophisticated than but a complement to ABS, which modulates braking based on wheel slip in an attempt to maintain vehicle control. A symptom would be mashing the brakes when on ice with poor tires for the situation, having little whweel slip, the vehicle stays pointed in the right direction, but you don't stop :^) A friend was 'comforted' by the ABS light in his truck blinking at him as slid thru a stop sign, but he said that at least he was pointed in the right direction.
Common systems which transfer power from a wheel with with low or no traction to one with some traction are limited slip or locking diffs, selectable or otherwise. These typically increase torque to the wheel with traction, and a common sympton on uniformly low traction surfaces is the rear end breaking loose, as both wheels were already on the verge of breaking loose. Another symptom of a limited slip is being on uneven surface with a 4wd and a front and rear wheel off of the ground, and not going anywhere, as a limited transfers a portion of torque to the wheel with traction, but a portion of zero is zero. Some of these systems can be made to engage a bit with braking.
AWD seems to typically refer to systems which allow some slippage in order to prevent binding, which is why they don't work well for handling heavy loads.
Some systems have diffs front and rear as well as a center diff, others have just a transfer case with front and rear diffs.
It's seems to be more sophisticated than but a complement to ABS, which modulates braking based on wheel slip in an attempt to maintain vehicle control. A symptom would be mashing the brakes when on ice with poor tires for the situation, having little whweel slip, the vehicle stays pointed in the right direction, but you don't stop :^) A friend was 'comforted' by the ABS light in his truck blinking at him as slid thru a stop sign, but he said that at least he was pointed in the right direction.
Common systems which transfer power from a wheel with with low or no traction to one with some traction are limited slip or locking diffs, selectable or otherwise. These typically increase torque to the wheel with traction, and a common sympton on uniformly low traction surfaces is the rear end breaking loose, as both wheels were already on the verge of breaking loose. Another symptom of a limited slip is being on uneven surface with a 4wd and a front and rear wheel off of the ground, and not going anywhere, as a limited transfers a portion of torque to the wheel with traction, but a portion of zero is zero. Some of these systems can be made to engage a bit with braking.
AWD seems to typically refer to systems which allow some slippage in order to prevent binding, which is why they don't work well for handling heavy loads.
Some systems have diffs front and rear as well as a center diff, others have just a transfer case with front and rear diffs.
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