Honda quit running

[Jimmy9190]

Hello all. A friend of mine called me tonight frantic because her car just died in the street. It's a 1998 Civic EX, 4 cyl. and automatic trans with about 220K on the clock. She was at a red light, light turned green she hit the gas and her car died in its tracks. She said it will turn over but not crank. Radio, lights, fan etc all still working, so it may not be the battery/alternator. Battery is about a year old, alternator was replaced around 150k, timing belt was done about 20K ago. AFAIK it has the original fuel pump.

AAA towed the car back to her house. I happen to have the next 2 days off and will go take a look at the car for her tomorrow. Any idea from the Honda guru's and anyone else here what to look for or what to test for? What's the average life expectancy of the fuel pump on a Civic? Are there any common problems on Civics at that age/mileage?

She has taken pretty good care of the car for as long as she's had it. Either I have done her maintenance and repairs or a shop has done it. The local Goodyear shop did the water pump and timing belt for her. There is no change in the pitch of the sound of the engine turning over so I don't believe it's the timing belt.

Any tips/advice/info is appreciated.

 

[flacoman]

Sure sounds like a timing belt!
Open the oil filler and see if the cam is turning before you get too much deeper. Barring that, I'd vote for spark(ignition amp box or distributor rotor)IIRC H series engines of that era had a recall on the distributor. Fuel issues will generally make cars sputter and then quit.
HTH
Jorge

 

[ThirdeYe]

I'm thinking Distributor or Timing Belt.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Me too. It sounds like an electrical fault of some sort. And thanks for the info on the distributor recall Flacoman but she would be way past the statute of limitations on any potential recalls on her car. It's past the warranty from Goodyear if it's got a broken timing belt. I am hoping it's just something simple like a bad coil or a bad plug wire, won't know till I get to look at it.

I don't know if hers is an interference engine or not. I hope to know more tomorrow. Any help is really appreciated here.

 

[ksJoe]

After looking down the oil fill cap as suggested to confirm the cam is turning....


Get a spark tester, and confirm you're getting spark.

Then get a can of starting fluid. Have someone turn it over for 5-10 seconds. While its turning, spray a little starting fluid in (I'd remove the air filter, and spray straight into it). A couple second spray of starting fluid while its turning over is plenty. If its a fuel issue, it should start, or try real hard to start, but only run for a couple seconds.

 

[Chris142]

If the cam is not turning the engine will sound strange when you turn the key. It won't sound even.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks again for the ideas here. I was sondering just how I could check for spark, so thanks for the link on the spark tester.

I'll have a look at it tomorrow and probably will have more questions then too. Thanks again..

 

[ThirdeYe]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's an interference engine.

 

[CharBaby]

Just taking a guess here! I think it's the fuel pump. Although I have to ask, when was the timing belt replaced? 200,000 miles is usually when a Honda fuel pump quits(my experience). Not bad! If it is the pump, there should be an access cover in the trunk(under the carpet, up close to the back seat) so that the fuel pump can replaced without removing the gas tank. Pretty easy job! Messy, but easy!

 

[Jimmy9190]

My old 1980 Civic was definitely an interference engine, when the timing belt on it broke it took out 2 intake valves and 1 exhaust valve and the shop that fixed it nearly had to get the new ones from Japan. Wasn't sure this one was the same.

Timing belt was done about a year and a half ago, I guess 20 or 25K miles since then. AFAIK she never had the fuel filter replaced. I am wondering if it is clogged, but if it were fuel related, I would expect it to have sputtered and died slowly instead of just shutting down all at once like this.

Am heading out later to take a look at the car. I hope to know a lot more later. Thanks for all the help on this one.

 

[meep]

x2 ksJoe.

m

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

I don't understand the turns over but wont crank comment from the first post.
If the car turns over,and the timing belt was already replaced once,I'm betting on the fuel pump,with ignition coil being the next logical step.

 

[PandaBear]

220k, most likely the ignition coil or ignition switch. Mine died at about 210k and the way to test it is to take it out and test the resistance at about 15-20C (20 second in a fridge), it should be a particular value (have to check).

Or go to a part store or dealer with the old ignition coil in hand and measure the resistance between them, they should be close if it is working.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks everybody for the help on this one. Turns out it was the coil. Thanks KS Joe for the link and info on the HF spark tester. I stopped by HF and got that and a few other things I needed. I got their fuel injection pump tester kit too in case I needed to check the fuel pump. It was on sale for $9.99 and I didn't need it but it may come in handy someday.

I could hear the fuel pump running, and it wouldn't start with starting fluid, so I used the spark tester and it had no spark at all. I have a Haynes book for the car so I ohmed out the terminals on the coil and it was way off the scale. It was shot and the local AAP had a new coil in stock so for $81.00 the car is running fine again.

That spark tester sure is one handy tool and it saved me a whole lot of guesswork. Thanks again to KSJoe and everyone else who chimed in on this one.

 

[ksJoe]

Since you're familiar with hf, this may be unnecessary, but just in case...

Their cheap tools are handy, but don't assume they work after being tossed around the toolbox. Every time I pull my HF spark tester out of the tool box, I hook it up to whatever running engine is handy (lawn mower) to make sure the tester still works.

You'd be really mad if you spent half a day thinking you had a spark issue, if it was really just a spark tester issue

 

[Jimmy9190]

I know what you mean, but unfortunately my tool box doesn't get opened that often any more so I enjoy fixing and doing maintenance on my truck or friends' cars when I can. I have had good luck with some wrenches, jack stands and a 3 Ton floor jack I got at HF. I got an electric 1/2" impact wrench there for $40.00 that I only use to to remove my wheels with which is normally every 4 months or so when I rotate my tires. Hopefully for the time I will use them the HF stuff will do. I have a some Snap-On, Mac and Matco tools too from my car electronics days when I really had to work for a living. I may just pull out my mower tomorrow and test my new spark tester. I never got a light from it today so naturally I figured it was working and the car had no spark.

At any rate, my friend is very glad her car is fixed and it didn't cost a whole lot. Who knows how much that would have run at the Honda dealer...

Thanks again for the help.

 

[TylerL]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
It was on sale for $9.99 and I didn't need it but it may come in handy someday.

My dad does that with half the stuff he buys from HF. It just sits on the shelf until we find a use.

Glad you got it fixed.

 

[CharBaby]

Glad that you got'er fixed. Happy motoring!

 

[Mr Nice]

We also had a 1998 Civic EX and it now has just a tiny bit more miles than your car.

Besides cracked exhaust manifolds, the coil is the only other problem area with these cars.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
We also had a 1998 Civic EX and it now has just a tiny bit more miles than your car.

Besides cracked exhaust manifolds, the coil is the only other problem area with these cars.


I recently sold a 95 civic at 248,000 that I had bought wrecked with 55,000. I put 3 CV shafts on it because the boot split, an AC switch, and it got an AC leak this summer. Thats the only non-preventive work I did on it. Well, I guess I put a battery in it too. It even still had the original clutch.

It was my first Japanese car. When replacing it, I only looked at Japanese cars!