Honda posts first loss ever after EV pullback

They’re doing LFP and LMR and NMCA - all 3 - tailored to specific vehicle segments.

The Ultium Spring Hill, TN plant has already begun producing LFP cells for energy storage systems and will add LFPs for vehicles by the end of 2027. The GM / Samsung plant in Indiana plant will make LFPs too.

Then the LMRs are a slightly further-out plan, mostly with LG.

Things are fluid, of course, but the plan is basically to give Chevrolets LFPs, Buick/GMCs LMRs and Cadillac the NMCA cells. Ultium Cell LLC has already implied the “2nd GEN” NMCA cell is coming.
Right but LMR was specifically designed to capture the cost benefit of LFP while matching the energy density of NCMA. The only LFP vehicle is the Bolt and it's uncertain how long they will build it. I've not seen anything indicated LFP will be used in the Blazer or Equinox, especially since LMR is coming soon (2028). They would have to switch the packs to C2P for LFP. I don't get the impression they want to make that investment right now.
 
I’m seeing more and more in Houston - sharp vehicles …
Yeah, when I pull up to a light I have to check to see if another EV is next to me. Tons of Optiqs and Lyriq in the area, and I'm seeing a lot more Blazers in the past few months as well. It's already time for an upgrade.
 
Right but LMR was specifically designed to capture the cost benefit of LFP while matching the energy density of NCMA. The only LFP vehicle is the Bolt and it's uncertain how long they will build it. I've not seen anything indicated LFP will be used in the Blazer or Equinox, especially since LMR is coming soon (2028). They would have to switch the packs to C2P for LFP. I don't get the impression they want to make that investment right now.

Bolt will be replaced with the “next gen affordable EV” platform and use the USA-made LFPs - a platform to compete with Ford’s Universal EV platform. No rumors on it yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Equinox EV switches to the Next Gen Affordable platform too.
 
Last edited:
Bolt will be replaced with the “next gen affordable EV” platform and use the USA-made LFPs - a platform to compete with Ford’s Universal EV platform. No rumors on it yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Equinox EV switches to the Next Gen Affordable platform too.
Whatever they do, I hope they go with a higher voltage and get the weight down. It's a crime that Cadillac is using 400V, but it hasn't seemed to slow adoption. I think most of these cell manufacturing plans were announced in 2025 before the bottom fell out of the market. But with oil prices high for the foreseeable future they may decide to continue with some of the originally planned investment.
 
"Wait till the big boys get in..."
...

Look at Toyota. They improved their EV SUVs, the bZ and RZ (compete directly with the #1 Model Y), and now they are the #3 selling EV model in the US. Rather than stuff a motor battery into an existing ICE platform, the e-TNGA is a pure play EV.
Why are you not highlighting the MASSIVE amount of money Toyota lost on the bZ?
You of all people who say to support USA companies, defiantly biased against GM you are.

You must be aware but for others, how can you not, this bZ EV car has been a dog, never making it close to the top ten models since inception.
New for 2026 with more range and Toyota offering 30% of the purchase price in incentives to buy it, they finally pulled up to the #3 model in the USA, still their total EV sales do not come close to GM. Why ignore these facts?

Meanwhile the "big boys" put a complete stop to Tesla sales growth which has been horrible for years now in the USA. Telsa still embarrassed to reveal USA figures, 3rd party companies have to do it. OVER 50,000 unsold Tesla's sat on their lot in the 1st quarter, deliveries down 14% despite incentives.
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/04/02/tesla-tsla-q1-2026-vehicle-delivery-production.html

While we are at it, Tesla energy storage business profit fell 45% in 2025 from 2024. Oh heck, but this is Tesla, what is a 45% drop in profit, and 50,000 cars sitting on lots unsold ... nothing, let's buy more stock!
They better get those robots going and catch up to China ... (just having fun here)
 
Last edited:
Honda’s own disclosure cites canceled North American EV models, U.S. incentive changes, tariffs, weaker competitiveness in Asia, and intensifying Chinese competition, not just subsidy removal. The U.S. tax credit did end for vehicles acquired after September 30, 2025, so it is a real factor, but not the whole story. Global EV sales were still growing strongly, with the IEA estimating electric car sales rose more than 20% in 2025 to 21 million units, which makes the “EV demand collapsed” explanation too U.S.-centric.
Yes, they watched the EV debacle unfold at Ford and chose not to follow it. Honda's reality is the hybrid is the solution to sales in the US, we simply don't have the infrastructure for universal EV usage.
 
Yes, they watched the EV debacle unfold at Ford and chose not to follow it. Honda's reality is the hybrid is the solution to sales in the US, we simply don't have the infrastructure for universal EV usage.
And not only that, America is a vast land of open space with an interstate highway system - and how fortunate we are to have this instead of being confined to densely populated, city centric countries elsewhere.

As an aside, I rode my bicycle across the continental US in 1992 and 1996. 1,000 miles per week for three consecutive weeks. In 1996 there were 26 Swiss riders who took part. The Swiss were highly capable cyclists but they said America was the only country in the world you could ride across the continent and rack up mileage like that. The same applies automotive travels.

Scott
 
Whatever they do, I hope they go with a higher voltage and get the weight down. It's a crime that Cadillac is using 400V, but it hasn't seemed to slow adoption. I think most of these cell manufacturing plans were announced in 2025 before the bottom fell out of the market. But with oil prices high for the foreseeable future they may decide to continue with some of the originally planned investment.

Yeah, I’m sure you’re right - there’s probably been many changes since these original plans from 2024/2025.

I love my LYRIQ as-is, but 400kW & sub 20 minute 10-80% DCFC sure would be a nice bonus 🤞
 
Last edited:
Yes, they watched the EV debacle unfold at Ford and chose not to follow it. Honda's reality is the hybrid is the solution to sales in the US, we simply don't have the infrastructure for universal EV usage.
According to Google there are more than 6100 public charging points in Pennsylvania. Granted these are probably all clustered around major cities or adjacent to interstate highways. If you have no need of one you probably never notice them.
 
Have not bought a Honda in years mostly because of not so good experience at Honda dealers in the past. As far as EV around here Tesla just dominates the EV market I wonder if it like that in other places in the US? Around commuting time Tesla EV and Toyota Hybirds are all over the place. I can't figure out what Honda plan was with their Prelude is with that price point and nothing that stands out. Was that their answer to the Toyota Prius if so that was a it was big swing and a miss. Number of strange decisions lately from honda.
 
Have not bought a Honda in years mostly because of not so good experience at Honda dealers in the past. As far as EV around here Tesla just dominates the EV market I wonder if it like that in other places in the US? Around commuting time Tesla EV and Toyota Hybirds are all over the place. I can't figure out what Honda plan was with their Prelude is with that price point and nothing that stands out. Was that their answer to the Toyota Prius if so that was a it was big swing and a miss. Number of strange decisions lately from honda.
I don't know, their CRV hybrid is a major player and the Accord and Civics are selling very well. Surprisingly sedans and hatchbacks are staging a major comeback, im thinking a lot of people are tiring of SUVs they don't really need. Our new Civics are a real treat to drive, quiet, comfortable, very quick and economical.
From what I understand the new hybrid-only Camry is also doing very well.
 
Last edited:
Why are you not highlighting the MASSIVE amount of money Toyota lost on the bZ?
You of all people who say to support USA companies, defiantly biased against GM you are.

You must be aware but for others, how can you not, this bZ EV car has been a dog, never making it close to the top ten models since inception.
New for 2026 with more range and Toyota offering 30% of the purchase price in incentives to buy it, they finally pulled up to the #3 model in the USA, still their total EV sales do not come close to GM. Why ignore these facts?

Meanwhile the "big boys" put a complete stop to Tesla sales growth which has been horrible for years now in the USA. Telsa still embarrassed to reveal USA figures, 3rd party companies have to do it. OVER 50,000 unsold Tesla's sat on their lot in the 1st quarter, deliveries down 14% despite incentives.
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/04/02/tesla-tsla-q1-2026-vehicle-delivery-production.html

While we are at it, Tesla energy storage business profit fell 45% in 2025 from 2024. Oh heck, but this is Tesla, what is a 45% drop in profit, and 50,000 cars sitting on lots unsold ... nothing, let's buy more stock!
They better get those robots going and catch up to China ... (just having fun here)
You are spot on regarding the bZ/RZ, up until now. My Lexus guy told me when we were looking at an RZ, "You don't want that car." Toyota deliver a turd from the EV perspective. And, as you say, paid a steep price.
The '26 version is a better EV in many ways; it turned around the Toy/Lex EV business. I don't think it is there yet, as only the FWD offers 300 mile range. The gas prices and Tesla Supercharger network compatibility is helping EV sales across the board.

You are also right about me and US made products, but I won't buy something I am not confident in. I've been burned. Once bitten twice shy, as they say.

The big boys have lost billions in their EV endeavours; that's the numbers. Tesla dominates in the US. The Model Y went through a significant refresh last year. Buyers were waiting for the new car for much of the year; sales jumped when the Juniper was released.

I expect the big boys to up their game. There are better products across the board.
 
You are spot on regarding the bZ/RZ, up until now. My Lexus guy told me when we were looking at an RZ, "You don't want that car." Toyota deliver a turd from the EV perspective. And, as you say, paid a steep price.
The '26 version is a better EV in many ways; it turned around the Toy/Lex EV business. I don't think it is there yet, as only the FWD offers 300 mile range. The gas prices and Tesla Supercharger network compatibility is helping EV sales across the board.

You are also right about me and US made products, but I won't buy something I am not confident in. I've been burned. Once bitten twice shy, as they say.

The big boys have lost billions in their EV endeavours; that's the numbers. Tesla dominates in the US. The Model Y went through a significant refresh last year. Buyers were waiting for the new car for much of the year; sales jumped when the Juniper was released.

I expect the big boys to up their game. There are better products across the board.
All companies lose money in developing new technologies. Tesla is the king of losing money and no different from any other.
After over 10 years, they managed to turn it around.
Meanwhile, for those last 10 years, General Motors makes billions in profit each and every year.
It’s important to me because of your post you make it sound like they’re losing money but as a car company they’re making a lot of money.

Tesla in the meantime, only made money on selling cars in the last three years. That’s a long freaking history of losing money on them.
So I don’t understand why you always point out other car companies that lose money making electric vehicles when for probably close to 15 years has lost money on every card they produced. Meaning they never showed a profit.

Then to paint Toyota in your initial post in a positive light because of a three month period they sold a lot of their electric vehicles which was a bomb since the day you came out until this year, and they still lose money on every one they make. Yet you fail to point that out.

Just discussing by the way!
Hope this makes sense no time to proofread going to dinner😂
 
Yes, they watched the EV debacle unfold at Ford and chose not to follow it. Honda's reality is the hybrid is the solution to sales in the US, we simply don't have the infrastructure for universal EV usage.
That’s because Americans are not accepting them for their mainstream vehicle. Market penetration is still less than 5%.
 
Yes, they watched the EV debacle unfold at Ford and chose not to follow it. Honda's reality is the hybrid is the solution to sales in the US, we simply don't have the infrastructure for universal EV usage.
No one is suggesting that we're going to flip a switch and everything will transition to EV. Most of them charge at night when there's a grid surplus anyway. Instead of worrying about EVs, worry about data centers. Now THOSE are the real energy hogs.
 
Last edited:
I think Honda has fallen off a bit over the last few years. Stagnant brand. Their engine options aren't really class leading and they've made some odd decisions. They didn't really have a good EV offering.

Their gas engines are so so - 1.5T has some known issues. They dropped the NA Port 2.0 in favor of a GDI only 2.0 with less power. 🤪

Civic and Accord will always sell well. Both good cars.
With LESS power on a GDI vs port injection. Then they deserve to fail financially. :eek:
 
Last edited:
According to Google there are more than 6100 public charging points in Pennsylvania. Granted these are probably all clustered around major cities or adjacent to interstate highways. If you have no need of one you probably never notice them.
Plus, they wouldn’t be grouped together like they are in gas stations, so not as noticeable, however
There are over 9000 gas stations in Pennsylvania and actual pumps tens of thousands,
2005 audit they were over 30,000 gas pumps
 
I feel like no hybrid option for the pilot, Passport and maybe Odyssey(not sure on that one) didn’t help.
 
Back
Top Bottom