Honda MTF on GM synchromesh application

[oravla]

Hi there!
I need to change the manual transmission fluid in my 99 Chevy S10. I know it needs the GM synchromesh fluid, but it is ridicusly expensive from the dealer. It is about 50% more expensive than a synthetic motoroil and I'm not willing to pay such a price.
I cannot buy amsoil or royal purple, because we don't get them in Chile and I also could not find the Pennzoil synchromesh.
While I was searching in internet I came across some Honda forums, where they used GM Synchromesh in their transmissions, because they find it better than the OEM Honda fluid. But around 1 1/2 years ago Honda developed an "improved" version of the MTF, that is supposed to be friction modified just as the GM synchromesh. And the people in the honda forums said it works as GM Synchromesh.

Now my questions:
- Does anyone know or have a clue of the formulation of this two fluids? Have both similar viscosity and additive package?
- With the avalible information, would you try it in my situation?

Next week I will ask the price of this Honda MTF and I want to have the information to make a decision, if the price is reasonable.

 

[MolaKule]

All MTF oils use a special friction modifier for synchromesh operation. There are only a handfull of us who know what that fm is.

Honda MTF fluids are generally 10.5 to 11.5 cSt in viscosity whereas the GM and Pennzoil MTF fluids are about 9.5 cSt.

I would think the Honda MTF would work fine.

 

[mechtech2]

And the FM is....?

 

[XPR]

Look at the Amsoil Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid. Retail is $8.95 qt.

 

[Pablo]

I was working on a South American connection....but it won't be timely enough for you. I agree the Honda MTF will work, but don't expect a super long life in the S-10.

 

[INDYMAC]

There are two GM Synchromesh MTF's. One is friction modified (it will say Friction Modified on the label), and one is not (it just says GM synchromesh on the label). AC Delco has the same products under their label as well. The friction modified is very expensive and never seems to be in stock at any GM dealership and has to be special ordered. It was formulated for the NV1500 transmission I believe.
I have a 2004 Honda S2000 (carbon fiber synchros) and have used OEM Honda MTF, GM synchromesh Friction Modified, and the new Honda MTF (Acura Precision Crafted MTF). The new Honda MTF is by far the best performing of the bunch so far. The GMSMFM was an improvement over the original Honda MTF though. It didn't last very long (7-8K miles).
I would recommend you try the new Honda MTF. Mine felt pretty rough shifting when I first changed over from GMSMFM, but started smoothing out after a few days. Be patient if this happens to you. It will come in a silver/gray bottle, with a green label and white bottle cap. That's how you'll know whether you're getting the new stuff or not.

 

[oravla]

Thank you all. I've a clearer picture now.
Yesterday I could find the chrysler part numbers for the same Synchromesh oil and additive in internet. I will ask for a quote on that too.

How long do you think can be the life of the Honda MTF in my S-10? Right now I have the original fluid in my truck and it has 100k miles.

Pablo: Do you see Amsoil in Chile in the near future? Today Liquimoly has the "premium" oil market here.

 

[Pablo]

Near future? I wish. Sorry. My goal is 2008. Amsoil international sales ideas are often divergent from mine.

Just for clarification:

GM part no. 12377916 for Manual Transmission,NV1500
GM part no. 12345349 Manual Transmission,NV3500

 

[Bror Jace]

oravla, The Honda MTF is just a tick thicker than the GM fluids ... which is probably why some of the Honda people who've tried it liked it. It will (initially) give the user an easiwer (less shift effort) shifting action.

Question is, does it protect as well?

So, using Honda MTF, you will be going a tick thicker than the factory recommended fluid ... but this stuff shears down relatively quickly so the effort should decrease a little with time and miles.

 

[JHZR2]

so general question... does ATF contain these magic synchromesh adds that are in these ther fluids, or do MTs that require ATF designed a different way?

Thanks,

JMH

 

[mechtech2]

Almost all manual transmissions spec'd for ATF will do better with the appropriate gear oil.

 

[MolaKule]

"...does ATF contain these magic synchromesh adds that are in these ther fluids, or do MTs that require ATF designed a different way?
"

No, ATF's do not contain the special synchromesh fricton modifier. Some claim that because many of the mt's designed for ATF use neddle bearings and such that they do better on ATF.

I have never bought into that claim. I maintain that ATF was speced primarily for cold weather shifting and not for wear control.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
"...does ATF contain these magic synchromesh adds that are in these ther fluids, or do MTs that require ATF designed a different way?
"

No, ATF's do not contain the special synchromesh fricton modifier. Some claim that because many of the mt's designed for ATF use neddle bearings and such that they do better on ATF.

I have never bought into that claim. I maintain that ATF was speced primarily for cold weather shifting and not for wear control.


Interesting. How about using a more viscous synthetic transmission fluid than a synthetic Synchromesh fluid in a transmission that has the needle bearings and specs ATF? Even with Synthetic Synchromesh transmission fluid my 2002 F-150 shifts "poorly" except in "winter" temps. Would I do any harm to the needle bearings in the transmission with a synthetic manual transmission fluid of say a 75W-90 spec?

MolaKule I miss your SF fluids.

Whimsey

 

[oravla]

Well I've the Honda MTF in the transmission for some miles now. So far, so good. No problems and I feel that the synchronizers work a little bit smoother now.
The old fluid was dark brown with a few metal shavings and some synchronizer material.

How long do you think I should keep this Honda MTF in the transmission?

 

[INDYMAC]

Congratulations. I think the new Honda MTF is an excellent product, unlike its lineage.
I don't think there is some magic number of miles for when to change it out. Just stay tuned to how it is performing and you will notice when it starts to shear down. It will start to get notchy when shifting (after it's warmed up)...time to change.

 

[Dave Hess]

Which Honda MTF did you use ??

The RED label .....or GREEN label bottle ?

 

[oravla]

I used the green label bottle (white cap). I don't think they make the old red label anymore.

 

[Bror Jace]

Resurrected this old thread because it dealt with the two types of Honda fluids.

Does anyone know the weight of the newer Honda MTF? The one UOA we have here (that I could find) doesn't measure weight @ 100 degrees.