Honda frc 800 tiller stuck in gear.

[maraakate]

I don't know. You'll have to refer to the FSM for the procedures. I do motorcycle mechanics, so some of it is similar.

Best way I've found to remove old gasket is to use fresh razor blades. When that stops working then switch to the red sanding stone with some tapping fluid. It will plug after about 20-30 seconds going in a criss-cross motion. Wipe it off with towels and go again. Sometimes you gotta spray a bit of brake cleaner on it as well.

This is the exact stone I use. It's not red, but same thing:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DK4VHC6Y

I looked at the part number for the rotary shaft chain. Appears to be an RK 520 62 link chain. Not sure about the WS part if it matters at all. It wouldn't be an o-ring chain, so don't bother buying that. With the WS could have a different pitch, if the WS means anything. You'd have to get a 520 chain and see. I can't answer that for you.

The drive chain is just a DID 520 32 link chain. That you can get with a master link. It looks like it's going to cost basically the same to get a 520 with 120 links. It's up to you. You COULD look at cheaper 520 chains and they'll probably be OK in your application just make sure it's well lubed. In your case it probably just makes sense to buy the drive chain direct.

Here's the RK 520 chain. You have to cut it to length and rivet a master link. I would not use the clip for it: https://www.amazon.com/RK-Racing-Chain-M520HD-108-Connecting/dp/B00BV6VX9O

I don't know what rivet link is suitable. I don't see one from RK, so you might be stuck buying that expensive chain.

Before you get crazy with any of this are you able to lay it on its side, have a helper turn the wheel and try shifting the gears to see where it is binding? Might be able to tell if the chain slack is really bad or something else. It sounds like this will get real expensive really quick and I'm sure it's not a rototiller worth that much. Unless, of course, you are doing this for a learning experience then by all means. I just don't want to lead you down rabbit holes of shotgunning parts and expensive special tools.

 

[maraakate]

Something else to think about... if you're able to do it may be worth lugging it over to a local Honda dealer and just paying the ~$125 for the diagnostics to see what needs to be done and then choosing to do the work yourself.

 

[gasman556]

Something else to think about... if you're able to do it may be worth lugging it over to a local Honda dealer and just paying the ~$125 for the diagnostics to see what needs to be done and then choosing to do the work yourself.

good idea and I thought about that about midway through. That horse has left the barn unfortunately. In for a penny, in for a pound and all that. Regardless of the outcome, this is going to be a learning experience and is quickly turning into an expensive one.

Thanks for the chain ideas, info, and options for alternatives. I'll look for some sort of whetstone for the gasket to be knocked off along with razors. I worry about creating a "gash" with razor blades on the metal moreso than with my sanding leading to oil leaks. This is likely unfounded, but I figure a straight line deformation would be easier for fluid to flow through vs me going at it with the sander along the gasket line.

I've got the technical docs on hand for the "how to" part, but zero experience in doing it. I've ordered bearing pullers and have some honda bearing installation adapter things for hammering them into place when that time comes too. I don't have any sort of shaft puller, which apparently is needed/recommended/required by the tech documents I have. I cannot find it either (Honda 07931-ha50100). Is there one you'd recommend for this? Again, thanks for the knowledge you've passed along!

 

[gasman556]

I don't know. You'll have to refer to the FSM for the procedures. I do motorcycle mechanics, so some of it is similar.

Best way I've found to remove old gasket is to use fresh razor blades. When that stops working then switch to the red sanding stone with some tapping fluid. It will plug after about 20-30 seconds going in a criss-cross motion. Wipe it off with towels and go again. Sometimes you gotta spray a bit of brake cleaner on it as well.

This is the exact stone I use. It's not red, but same thing:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DK4VHC6Y

I looked at the part number for the rotary shaft chain. Appears to be an RK 520 62 link chain. Not sure about the WS part if it matters at all. It wouldn't be an o-ring chain, so don't bother buying that. With the WS could have a different pitch, if the WS means anything. You'd have to get a 520 chain and see. I can't answer that for you.

The drive chain is just a DID 520 32 link chain. That you can get with a master link. It looks like it's going to cost basically the same to get a 520 with 120 links. It's up to you. You COULD look at cheaper 520 chains and they'll probably be OK in your application just make sure it's well lubed. In your case it probably just makes sense to buy the drive chain direct.

Here's the RK 520 chain. You have to cut it to length and rivet a master link. I would not use the clip for it: https://www.amazon.com/RK-Racing-Chain-M520HD-108-Connecting/dp/B00BV6VX9O

I don't know what rivet link is suitable. I don't see one from RK, so you might be stuck buying that expensive chain.

Before you get crazy with any of this are you able to lay it on its side, have a helper turn the wheel and try shifting the gears to see where it is binding? Might be able to tell if the chain slack is really bad or something else. It sounds like this will get real expensive really quick and I'm sure it's not a rototiller worth that much. Unless, of course, you are doing this for a learning experience then by all means. I just don't want to lead you down rabbit holes of shotgunning parts and expensive special tools.

I wasn't able to move the shifter assembly at all without force after I disassembled everything. The transmission was in gear and I didn't think to try and turn it by hand on the axle when I was in disassembly mode. The chain looked to be in a good position on the drive sprockets best I could tell when I broke the transmission case seal. It did bind however when I tried to disassemble it with the "right" side up as one of the two bearings didn't want to let go of that particular gear set. I had to rotate the transission to be "left" side up and it came apart without a problem. I hope that makes sense.

 

[maraakate]

Small gashes with a razor blade arent fatal. OEM gaskets have a specific thickness that helps with this and is also critical for spacing with the transmission side. Grease helps the swelling process. If youre deeply concerned you can get a brass scraper. I have one for some jobs with antiques that im afraid of damaging. The downside to this is that you need a bench grinder to continously sharpen it.

I personally dont like abrasives on a powered tool, including a dremel, because it could get into a bearing surface and the sand flying around can get statically charged. Dont tell anyone, but somwtimes you get a spot that not even a razor blade or that whetstone will knock down and when that happens ill use 120 grit BY HAND very carefully. Be sure to clean, clean, clean if you must do this.

I'll have to look at the puller tool and see what youre trying to do. Not able to do so at this exact minute.

Have you disconnected the shifter cable and using a pair of vice grips, etc. to pull on the linkage to make sure its not a rusted cable?

 

[gasman556]

The cable was good and free. It was among the things I hit with Kroil when I was first troubleshooting and it's still slick and free sliding. I also replaced it about 3 years ago so it's rust free still inside the sleeve.

I wish it was the cable.

 

[maraakate]

OK. I can't find a picture of this special tool anywhere online. Do you have a link to the FSM so I can see why you think you need it?

 

[Arc]

That looks good compared to my old tiller with the sealed transmission. Had to cut mine open just to find the problem. As far as chain slack I just welded in a little ramp to take up the slack. A tiller takes a lot of abuse so a new chain will end up stretching in no time at all. The metal flakes are just the gear teeth wearing down. The new ones will fling the grease off just like those did. Your repairs should give it many more years of service

 

[gasman556]

OK. I can't find a picture of this special tool anywhere online. Do you have a link to the FSM so I can see why you think you need it?

I couldn’t either! I looked back at the manual I’ve got and it doesn’t say to use it on any step I can see during my brief looking through it to find the picture to match the part. Given this, I am hopeful it won’t be a thorn in my side when it comes time for reassembly.

That looks good compared to my old tiller with the sealed transmission. Had to cut mine open just to find the problem. As far as chain slack I just welded in a little ramp to take up the slack. A tiller takes a lot of abuse so a new chain will end up stretching in no time at all. The metal flakes are just the gear teeth wearing down. The new ones will fling the grease off just like those did. Your repairs should give it many more years of service

Thanks! Good to know. I thought it looked bad (but I have no point of reference). I am optimistic in what I’ve learned here so far, but the proof will be in the pudding once I try and put Humpty Dumpty back together.

 

[Arc]

I couldn’t either! I looked back at the manual I’ve got and it doesn’t say to use it on any step I can see during my brief looking through it to find the picture to match the part. Given this, I am hopeful it won’t be a thorn in my side when it comes time for reassembly.


Thanks! Good to know. I thought it looked bad (but I have no point of reference). I am optimistic in what I’ve learned here so far, but the proof will be in the pudding once I try and put Humpty Dumpty back together.

I bought a Bolens Super Versamatic Walk Behind Tractor a few years back with a plow, disc and cultivator. I love that old thing and use it every spring for the garden. I think it's from the 50's.

 

[gasman556]

given I don't know what sort of grease they used to pack the bearings I'm replacing, any recommendations of commonly available grease you'd recommend? I am assuming it's at least some grease making up the "sludge" which I've taken pics above (I don't see any hint of any color other than black/gray fwiw). If I am wrong, and these are somehow good without grease please let me know that too. Again, thanks!

 

[gasman556]

given I don't know what sort of grease they used to pack the bearings I'm replacing, any recommendations of commonly available grease you'd recommend? I am assuming it's at least some grease making up the "sludge" which I've taken pics above (I don't see any hint of any color other than black/gray fwiw). If I am wrong, and these are somehow good without grease please let me know that too. Again, thanks!

For posterity, it looks like the most compatible of the relevant greases is a calcium 12 hydroxy grease such as Mystik JT6 multipurpose that should work for my application on the bearings. I am going to hopefully get this going and get the pile of parts put back together appropriately by this weekend.

 

[gasman556]

Unsolicited update: Joke's on me! The bearings were NOT packed with grease, but that was part of the forbidden glitter slurry created by the 2nd gear being shredded and transmission case oil mixing! I did NOT pack the replacement bearings that I got and ended up having to table the project for a bit to await a new gear. Great.

In the meantime, I tried the whetstone trick of shaving the old gasket off. Unfortunately between the age and the guy it was bought from using some sort of liquid gasket thing instead of (likely) replacing said gasket, it was a solid NOGO. I had to fall back yet again for using the dremel and changing sanding wheels every 6 inches or so of progress. Yes, it was as cool as it sounds.

Blind bearing puller worked great, new seals are in (for the most part) and I'm awaiting both a new external bearing puller tool (to get the last stuck shaft/chain off the other side of the transmission case), and a replacement 2nd gear before I totally push to put humpty dumpty back together again.

 

[gasman556]

Got the new gear installed, bathed the inside of the case with degreaser and brake clean to try and wash out as much of the trash as possible. Used gray permatex and a new paper “gasket” thing per Honda’s instruction. I had to use some persuasion in the form of a dead blow mallet to get the two sides within 1/2” of each other. Then (again, per the instruction), threaded some of the bolts to pull the sides together. Finger tight first, waited 1 hr, then torque to spec per the permatex tube instructions. Now I’m waiting past the 24 hr mark before testing as I want to make sure the seal is as cured as possible before filling with oil and testing all the stuff I did. Here’s to progress made so far

 

[gasman556]

Good news: gear selector cycles between all of the normal drive gears and the drive axle spins like it should between all non tine engaging gears.

Bad news: tine axle spins freely regardless of gear and the gear selector will not go into either of the "tine engagement" gears.

Great.

 

[gasman556]

Good news: gear selector cycles between all of the normal drive gears and the drive axle spins like it should between all non tine engaging gears.

Bad news: tine axle spins freely regardless of gear and the gear selector will not go into either of the "tine engagement" gears.

Great.

Last update to be had:

Thankfully, the book had the tine motion description incorrect with gear selection. After some fiddling with the fork and the gear selector assembly, I’m back online at 100%. I’m planning on a couple brief transmission oil changes to wash out whatever bits are left in there from the second gear grinding itself to bits and generating this fiasco.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[The_Eric]

Thanks for keeping us all updated, glad you're all fixed up!

 

[BrianF]

Thanks for sharing and glad you got her going!