Honda Automatic Transmission Design...
- Thread starter gregk24
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But one has to wonder if they are better with that design or worse. My guess would be worse.
It seems like it would be a better design as manual transmissions tend to last forever.
However, data proves otherwise.
However, data proves otherwise.
The excellent success of Honda's transmissions in some models is evidence that the "automated manual" design itself works. For example, models like the CR-V have, for some reason, never experienced the trouble that other Honda models have. Additionally, since about the 2005 timeframe, Honda's transmission reliability, at least according to mainstream sources, is at least as good as the industry average, so the concept does work. Some of their transmission models from 8-10 years ago experienced more widespread failures, apparently due to cooling or clutch issues.
It will take Honda a long time to live down the perception of the problem. I remember when nobody would touch a Chrysler vehicle, for all the transmission problems they were having (this was about 15-20 years ago). I remember when transmissions were falling out of Ford Tauruses and Windstars. My '84 Cutlass lost its miserable TH-200-C transmission prior to 100k miles. Time goes on...it always has and it always will. People who desire to move beyond such things can. People who prefer to dwell on such things can as well.
It will take Honda a long time to live down the perception of the problem. I remember when nobody would touch a Chrysler vehicle, for all the transmission problems they were having (this was about 15-20 years ago). I remember when transmissions were falling out of Ford Tauruses and Windstars. My '84 Cutlass lost its miserable TH-200-C transmission prior to 100k miles. Time goes on...it always has and it always will. People who desire to move beyond such things can. People who prefer to dwell on such things can as well.
From simple observations on web forums it always felt like all of Honda's transmission woes were isolated to their V-6 powered vehicles. I can't recall a single instance where I read about somebody complaining about their I-4 gearbox pooping the bed.
I remember reading about people claiming to be on their third gearbox in their early '00's TL.
I remember reading about people claiming to be on their third gearbox in their early '00's TL.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
From simple observations on web forums it always felt like all of Honda's transmission woes were isolated to their V-6 powered vehicles. I can't recall a single instance where I read about somebody complaining about their I-4 gearbox pooping the bed.
I remember reading about people claiming to be on their third gearbox in their early '00's TL.
Yes I've heard of this but that doesn't apply to my 2000 3.2TL - 171,000 miles on the original transaxle and still going strong.
From simple observations on web forums it always felt like all of Honda's transmission woes were isolated to their V-6 powered vehicles. I can't recall a single instance where I read about somebody complaining about their I-4 gearbox pooping the bed.
I remember reading about people claiming to be on their third gearbox in their early '00's TL.
Yes I've heard of this but that doesn't apply to my 2000 3.2TL - 171,000 miles on the original transaxle and still going strong.
"Claim?" Is the new political correctness such that we are rewriting history to believe that the Acura/Honda transmission debacle never happened. Forget that noise. I have needed two transmissions and one rebuild to get my 01 tl to 200k. The car is a tank otherwise, and yet after proctoring 30 new Honda purchases, I am through. The transmission issue was handled badly by Honda. The lawsuit made some lawyers wealthy. Honda is now the OJ Simpson of car manufacturers.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The excellent success of Honda's transmissions in some models is evidence that the "automated manual" design itself works. For example, models like the CR-V have, for some reason, never experienced the trouble that other Honda models have. Additionally, since about the 2005 timeframe, Honda's transmission reliability, at least according to mainstream sources, is at least as good as the industry average, so the concept does work. Some of their transmission models from 8-10 years ago experienced more widespread failures, apparently due to cooling or clutch issues.
It will take Honda a long time to live down the perception of the problem. I remember when nobody would touch a Chrysler vehicle, for all the transmission problems they were having (this was about 15-20 years ago). I remember when transmissions were falling out of Ford Tauruses and Windstars. My '84 Cutlass lost its miserable TH-200-C transmission prior to 100k miles. Time goes on...it always has and it always will. People who desire to move beyond such things can. People who prefer to dwell on such things can as well.
Honda only had a few bad years with transmissions and they resolved the problems. Chrysler and Ford made defective transmissions for nearly 20 years.
Aside from transmission issues, Honda made a good vehicle back then. Accords had top notch interior, suspension and engine. Chrysler just made pure junk.
The excellent success of Honda's transmissions in some models is evidence that the "automated manual" design itself works. For example, models like the CR-V have, for some reason, never experienced the trouble that other Honda models have. Additionally, since about the 2005 timeframe, Honda's transmission reliability, at least according to mainstream sources, is at least as good as the industry average, so the concept does work. Some of their transmission models from 8-10 years ago experienced more widespread failures, apparently due to cooling or clutch issues.
It will take Honda a long time to live down the perception of the problem. I remember when nobody would touch a Chrysler vehicle, for all the transmission problems they were having (this was about 15-20 years ago). I remember when transmissions were falling out of Ford Tauruses and Windstars. My '84 Cutlass lost its miserable TH-200-C transmission prior to 100k miles. Time goes on...it always has and it always will. People who desire to move beyond such things can. People who prefer to dwell on such things can as well.
Honda only had a few bad years with transmissions and they resolved the problems. Chrysler and Ford made defective transmissions for nearly 20 years.
Aside from transmission issues, Honda made a good vehicle back then. Accords had top notch interior, suspension and engine. Chrysler just made pure junk.
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Reliability aside yes they don't use a planetary gearset it's more similar to a manual transmission. Originally this was done for simplicity and reduced frictional losses.
As much as I love Honda they are the only auto manufacturer that designs and builds all their transmissions in house, and one has to wonder whether this is good or bad and why they do it. I mean, one reason no one can take the Acura seriously is that it's still running 6 speed automatics in a world of 8 or more. Most Honda models are lucky with a 5 speed. There's an obvious lag in this area for them. And what is the benefit? Why not buy 20% of Aisin or Jatco (basically partnering with Toy or Nissan) and take off the shelf parts that are better than what you are using?
As much as I love Honda they are the only auto manufacturer that designs and builds all their transmissions in house, and one has to wonder whether this is good or bad and why they do it. I mean, one reason no one can take the Acura seriously is that it's still running 6 speed automatics in a world of 8 or more. Most Honda models are lucky with a 5 speed. There's an obvious lag in this area for them. And what is the benefit? Why not buy 20% of Aisin or Jatco (basically partnering with Toy or Nissan) and take off the shelf parts that are better than what you are using?
The 2013 Accord data shows that 13% of all reported repairs are to the transmission. That's not good at all. Some earlier years were 0%. The "famed" 2000 Accord transmission problems were only responsible for 5% of reported repairs.
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
Uh, no. Second gen 3.2TLs had the 4 spd transaxles in '99 only.
They went to the 5 spd transaxle in 2000, which is what my car has:
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
The 4-speed autotragic transmissions in V6 Honda products of that era were worse than the 5-speeds.
Your 2000 tl is a four speed transmission and is not impacted by this problem.
The 4-speed autotragic transmissions in V6 Honda products of that era were worse than the 5-speeds.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Reliability aside yes they don't use a planetary gearset it's more similar to a manual transmission. Originally this was done for simplicity and reduced frictional losses.
Actually, it was done to avoid patent infringement, since Borg-Warner had a patent on the planetary automatic. Honda took the approach of using conventional gearsets with clutch packs so they could get around it.
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1968hondamatic/
I don't see why one would be intrinsically better or worse than the other, since planetary automatics have clutches that can fail, gears that can wear, and have the same level of hydraulic complexity.
Reliability aside yes they don't use a planetary gearset it's more similar to a manual transmission. Originally this was done for simplicity and reduced frictional losses.
Actually, it was done to avoid patent infringement, since Borg-Warner had a patent on the planetary automatic. Honda took the approach of using conventional gearsets with clutch packs so they could get around it.
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1968hondamatic/
I don't see why one would be intrinsically better or worse than the other, since planetary automatics have clutches that can fail, gears that can wear, and have the same level of hydraulic complexity.
Honda transmissions tend to shift rough (i.e. not smooth, you can feel every shift), due to the nature of their design. Older Honda's would knock your teeth out when they shifted. Although they have gotten a bit better in this respect, but still not nearly as smooth as competitors.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Hey I remember that gated shifter! My Dad's 2000 TL had that. The auto dimming rear view mirror leaked and melted it! It was also on it's third transmission by the time I totaled it with 109k on it. Not Honda's finest car...
Off topic... My rear view mirror popped too (the internal seal between the mirror elements let go and it ended up with a big air bubble.. luckily though it didn't spill out). Contacted Magna-Donnelly and they replaced it for free.
On topic... I had the dealer install the "jet" plus I do a transaxle d&f anuually with Amsoil ATF (but more recently Mobil 1 ATF). So far, so good...
Hey I remember that gated shifter! My Dad's 2000 TL had that. The auto dimming rear view mirror leaked and melted it! It was also on it's third transmission by the time I totaled it with 109k on it. Not Honda's finest car...
Off topic... My rear view mirror popped too (the internal seal between the mirror elements let go and it ended up with a big air bubble.. luckily though it didn't spill out). Contacted Magna-Donnelly and they replaced it for free.
On topic... I had the dealer install the "jet" plus I do a transaxle d&f anuually with Amsoil ATF (but more recently Mobil 1 ATF). So far, so good...
Originally Posted By: Blokey
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Hey I remember that gated shifter! My Dad's 2000 TL had that. The auto dimming rear view mirror leaked and melted it! It was also on it's third transmission by the time I totaled it with 109k on it. Not Honda's finest car...
Off topic... My rear view mirror popped too (the internal seal between the mirror elements let go and it ended up with a big air bubble.. luckily though it didn't spill out). Contacted Magna-Donnelly and they replaced it for free.
On topic... I had the dealer install the "jet" plus I do a transaxle d&f anuually with Amsoil ATF (but more recently Mobil 1 ATF). So far, so good...
I was going to say, I'll bet the mirror was a Donnelly mirror. A friend of mine works for Gentex and he said that's a very common Donnelly mirror failure point...fluid leakage.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Hey I remember that gated shifter! My Dad's 2000 TL had that. The auto dimming rear view mirror leaked and melted it! It was also on it's third transmission by the time I totaled it with 109k on it. Not Honda's finest car...
Off topic... My rear view mirror popped too (the internal seal between the mirror elements let go and it ended up with a big air bubble.. luckily though it didn't spill out). Contacted Magna-Donnelly and they replaced it for free.
On topic... I had the dealer install the "jet" plus I do a transaxle d&f anuually with Amsoil ATF (but more recently Mobil 1 ATF). So far, so good...
I was going to say, I'll bet the mirror was a Donnelly mirror. A friend of mine works for Gentex and he said that's a very common Donnelly mirror failure point...fluid leakage.
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