I just hate using the pricey ( $ 6/qt at my local deal, less mail order) proprietary Honda ATF Z1 but am afraid to use anything else ( like Dexron III with Lubegard HFM , or Redline . Is there anyone here that actually knows know what is so unique about Honda brand ATF ? -thanks
Honda ATF ?
- Thread starter rkpatt
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I'm not familar w/ Honda ATF Z1, but honda ATF is a dextron II. Quaker State makes a Honda replacement ATF but i don't know if it is up to Z1 spec. Honda has been having Auto transmission problems and if you should have a problem and your not using Honda ATF Z1, that could give them a reason to deny a claim.
i use dexron III in my automatic civic, drive it hard and have no problems.
I just bought a cast of Honda atf, I have also used dexron with the lubegaurd supplemant. I fugure that I will drain and fill once a year so the cost is not to much if you look at that way. I would be interested to know if it protects the transmission as well or better then anything else on the market. If someone knows how the get some detailed info please post it.
Checked on the Quaker State and Penzoil Multi vehicle ATF. Both can be used in a Honda that calls for ATF Z1.The Quaker State stuff is sold at Walmart here in the states.
i was thinking of going honda transmission fluild right now i run dextron 3..valvaline. iono about it. i drive my auto really hard too...i wonder if honda is better. ill shell out the cash for honda since its going to stay in there for 30,000 miles..idealy. today we did my friends integras fluid and we used honda. he clamed that shifting was very much improved...he was sceptical of what brand to use. now i wonder if honda is better than aftermarket
ATFs are a REALLY tricky lot because different transmissions seem to prefer different levels of friction … and this varies further with the amount (and type) of miles each has on it. A REALLY GOOD synthetic ATF might be fine in one car and then perform miserably in another. So, when experimenting with different ATFs (different brands/formulations), be prepared to have a some bad experiences with high-quality fluids. This can be frustrating (and expensive!) at times but it helps if you know ahead of time to expect a few bumps in the road if you want to experiment.
I’ve known Honda drivers to swear by and at both Mobil 1 and Red Line synthetic ATF. Go figure.
The bottom line? I just don’t know. But I avoid automatics regardless and drive only manuals instead. Oh, and I fill those gear boxes with Red Line MTL.
--- Bror Jace
I’ve known Honda drivers to swear by and at both Mobil 1 and Red Line synthetic ATF. Go figure.
The bottom line? I just don’t know. But I avoid automatics regardless and drive only manuals instead. Oh, and I fill those gear boxes with Red Line MTL.
--- Bror Jace
yea mine was specified dextron II...dextron III is made now to replace that. but i wonder if i should go with honda or after market
I don't know about newer Honda automatics, but I experimented with Mobil One ATF and other Dexrons in my 1988 Acura Legend many years ago and found out the hard, make that "hard shifting," way that Honda ATF was by far the best for it. It disappointed me because I was, and am, such a fan of synthetic lubes, but I could not deny the truth.
i got valvaline dextron 3 in my 91 accord and it makes that kinda jerking sensation. i dont like it much...
I un did the drain plug, out came 3.5 quarts of dexron with converting additive. In went 3.5 quarts of honda atf. For me it is worth it just to end the possability that I am using the wrong stuff. My final thoughts are, dexron with lubeguard (black bottle) converts to something similar to honda ATF. But with Honda stuff you know your getting the right ingredients. Some say they see a lot of shift improvement with the switch. Not me but that is because my fluid had the lubeguard in it anyway.
Tried, dexron ii, castrol syntec ATF and another semi- syn and they all shifted "hard". At first I used to think that this was a good "positive" shift but it appears that as the transmission aged, (250,000 km) the shifting got harder. My manual (89 Legend) had always said Dexron II so I never thought of OEM.
Tried the Honda ATFZ1 and it's good. Quieter transmission, smoother shifts and less shudder. I didn't flush out the old stuff, I just drained it. I expect improvements after next year's drain and fill.
Tried the Honda ATFZ1 and it's good. Quieter transmission, smoother shifts and less shudder. I didn't flush out the old stuff, I just drained it. I expect improvements after next year's drain and fill.
I share your experience. Most currently I used MaxLife Dexron III in the 88 Accord LXi I just picked up, and shifting was still hard enough to make the dash make a crack sound on some shifts. I then changed to Honda ATF-Z1, shifts were suddenly smoother. 6 months later I changed out the ATF-Z1 again, and it's even a little smoother yet. (half the old ATF stays in the torque converter and transmission at each change).
My own experience: I flushed the factory fill fluid at 20,000 miles on '96 Accord automatic that had gotten progressively harsher shifting quality. I used Dexron III for the flush and final fill and left room for 8 oz. of Lubegard HFM in the black bottle ("highly friction modified"). Within 1,000 miles, end of hard shifting - still quick and reassuringly solid, but the transitions no longer rattled my fillings. My neighbor next door bought a 2003 Accord with the new 5-speed AT (VERY smooth! Honda got this one right.) and let me borrow his owner's manual since I was curious. It predictably proclaimed that the fluid of choice is Honda ATF Z1 as others pointed out, but it specifically offered that Dexron III was an acceptable -temporary- substitute. The manual advised to flush and change as soon as possible if Dexron-III was added and went on to say that if the Dexron-III were left in, it -could- affect shift quality (probably based on the amount added). My read on this is that the Honda ATF Z1 is an HFM fluid as it comes out the bottle. Given my experience with my '96 Accord, and what the 2003 Accord owner's manual says, if I had a 2003 Accord and was looking to changeout the ATF, I'd flush and fill with Dexron III and use the Lubegard HFM again. (As an aside, the 2003 Accord owner's manual says to drain, refill, and drive "a short distance" three times. I did it eight times since the '96 Accord owner's manual was mum on the subject and I wasn't sure at the time I changed it. I guess I probably got most of the factory fill ATF out... Lubegard's web site seems to imply that conventional ATFs are essentially the same regarding base stocks and additives, but they differ in how much friction modifier is added. Type F being lowest at or near zero. Most (all?) of the various OEM proprietary ATFs are HFM quailified. Chrysler ATF +4 and Mercon V are probably the highest, and I believe both may be semi-synthetics, or at least use Group III base stocks.
Regarding the comments about Dexron II and Dexron-III: I'm aware of the availability of QS Dexron-II for ATs that specifiy it, but I've also read on the backs of Dexron-III bottles that Dexron-III is fully backward compatible with ATs that specify Dexron-II and Dexron-IIE. It seems odd to me to pay nearly double the price for an obsolete ATF designation that's only in limited distribution. I was under the impression that Dexron III improved on Dexron-IIE's stability, and resistance to wear, metal corrosion, and fluid oxidation under high temperature conditions, but, what do I know?...
-Ray Haeffele
Regarding the comments about Dexron II and Dexron-III: I'm aware of the availability of QS Dexron-II for ATs that specifiy it, but I've also read on the backs of Dexron-III bottles that Dexron-III is fully backward compatible with ATs that specify Dexron-II and Dexron-IIE. It seems odd to me to pay nearly double the price for an obsolete ATF designation that's only in limited distribution. I was under the impression that Dexron III improved on Dexron-IIE's stability, and resistance to wear, metal corrosion, and fluid oxidation under high temperature conditions, but, what do I know?...
-Ray Haeffele
Use ATF Z1? Not required in old models. Probably a good idea in new models due to transmission problems.
I have not seen the 1996 model. The owners manual for the Accord 1994 4 cyl auto asks for DexronII. Unfortunately, the 2002 and 2003 call for ATF Z1. Pennzoil-Quaker State has a multivehicle ATF which it claims will work in new Hondas. One poster at odyclub.com stated that he just flushed with Pz-QS multivehicle ATF and had good results. Neither Pz-QS or odyclub sites are reachable now.
Honda Acura vehicles have a new reputation for transmission troubles starting in 1999 and contining to this year. Problems include sudden downshifts from 5th to 2nd gear resulting in skidding out of control and at least one injury accident.
Here is a site with Acura CL transmission problems.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=63ec3d706b652ca46b319a856d03bfff&forumid=126
Other Hondas including the Accord, Odyssey, and Acura TL have had significant problems.
I have not seen the 1996 model. The owners manual for the Accord 1994 4 cyl auto asks for DexronII. Unfortunately, the 2002 and 2003 call for ATF Z1. Pennzoil-Quaker State has a multivehicle ATF which it claims will work in new Hondas. One poster at odyclub.com stated that he just flushed with Pz-QS multivehicle ATF and had good results. Neither Pz-QS or odyclub sites are reachable now.
Honda Acura vehicles have a new reputation for transmission troubles starting in 1999 and contining to this year. Problems include sudden downshifts from 5th to 2nd gear resulting in skidding out of control and at least one injury accident.
Here is a site with Acura CL transmission problems.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=63ec3d706b652ca46b319a856d03bfff&forumid=126
Other Hondas including the Accord, Odyssey, and Acura TL have had significant problems.
Hey guys, strolling the local Walmart I came upon a Quaker State product called "Special Import". The bottle says something to the effect of "for use in acura, honda, toyota,... and other late model cars that specifically call for the use of DexII. QS is a special grade of quality lubricants plus additives....so on". Label said Quaker State Co. , Houston, Tx. 2000. Don't know how old it was, but for shucks and grins, looked at next local Walmart and they had some too. After I finished the Auto-rx in transmission, I chickened out and forked the $ for the Honda Genuine stuff though. In looking on the Q.S. web site, it was on there still, though. If you use your browser for "Quaker State Special Import", it will probably come up. For what its worth, it was $1.96 per qt.
Dexron-III is listed as being backward compatible with Dexron-II and Dexron-IIE, so what's the point in seeking out Dexron-II? I believe I read somewhere that Dexron-III has better heat tolerance and oxidation resistance. Perhaps someone with more knowledge would expand on or correct my understanding.
My '96 Accord owner's manual listed the preferred fluid as "Genuine Honda ATF", but secondarily listed Dexron-II as a marginally acceptable substitute. I don't think in '96 the sub-suffix, "Z1" had been released yet, but Honda already clearly preferred their owners to top up or changeout with genuine Honda fluid if at all possible, as the company still does.
After my experience with Lubegard in that 96 Honda, when my Hyundai hits 15,000 - 20,000 miles, out comes the factory fill and in comes Dexron-III with 8 oz. of Lubegard HFM, again. I'd almost sooner get it over with, now, but I figure it won't hurt anything to let the internals do their final milling with the factory fill fluid. Changing the filter on this beast looks like it's gonna be a bear. The pan is vertically oriented facing the front end of the car and nearly inaccessible because of nearby "stuff" with little working room to get at the 8 or so bolts that attach it to the case. Any suggestions? (besides disassembling most of the car's front end)
Finally, someone posted on this thread to change the filter/strainer on a Honda automatic during a flush and refill. Where is it? How do you get to it - disassemble the transmission? On my 96 there was no pan underneath that I could find - just a split-halves cast aluminum case. There was a large head drain plug screwed directly into a threaded hole in one of the cast aluminum case halves (passenger side).
My '96 Accord owner's manual listed the preferred fluid as "Genuine Honda ATF", but secondarily listed Dexron-II as a marginally acceptable substitute. I don't think in '96 the sub-suffix, "Z1" had been released yet, but Honda already clearly preferred their owners to top up or changeout with genuine Honda fluid if at all possible, as the company still does.
After my experience with Lubegard in that 96 Honda, when my Hyundai hits 15,000 - 20,000 miles, out comes the factory fill and in comes Dexron-III with 8 oz. of Lubegard HFM, again. I'd almost sooner get it over with, now, but I figure it won't hurt anything to let the internals do their final milling with the factory fill fluid. Changing the filter on this beast looks like it's gonna be a bear. The pan is vertically oriented facing the front end of the car and nearly inaccessible because of nearby "stuff" with little working room to get at the 8 or so bolts that attach it to the case. Any suggestions? (besides disassembling most of the car's front end)
Finally, someone posted on this thread to change the filter/strainer on a Honda automatic during a flush and refill. Where is it? How do you get to it - disassemble the transmission? On my 96 there was no pan underneath that I could find - just a split-halves cast aluminum case. There was a large head drain plug screwed directly into a threaded hole in one of the cast aluminum case halves (passenger side).
check out Patman's post beginning on Jan, 1 on "which transmission flush method". It is VERY possible that your Honda has NO filter. DexIII is not backwards compatible without a highly friction modified supplement (i.e. Lubegard) in Honda transmissions that called for DexII. Check a service manual (not ownwers manual) to see if this vehicle has a filter-my 90 acura does not. Remember that dexron is , I believe, a GM product and these are not GM transmissions. Some of their fluids are simply compatible. Check Quaker State/Pennzoil sites as well which explain both the multi-vehicle atf and the special import noted above-they are different than straight DexIII. DexIII is definitely supposed to be higher temp stable than DexII or IIe, but if it will not work in your car......... I got a newspaper response on pretty much the exact subject which is outlined in that post. Hope that helps-if not, I,m lost too.
I just bought 3 quarts, it cost me $2.28 per quart. Someday I'll try it in my beater, which calls for Dexron II... and ATF-Z1 has been working well but twice as expensive.
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