Home electrical question (long read)

[sciphi]

This ultimately gets to my question, I promise!

The previous owners of my house retrofitted A/C to the forced-air system. The installer yanked out the double breaker for the then-unused dryer circuit to run the A/C circuit. They left the bare ends from the dryer circuit hanging in the electrical panel (which chaps my behind, but that's another issue), but left the 30-amp dryer breaker on top of the box. Of course our dryer is electric. So we've been without an operating dryer for a few weeks. Not a big deal, but still a hassle.

Fast-forward to today, when the previous owner (nice guy, very helpful!) stopped by on an unrelated matter. I asked about the dryer circuit, and was told that the breaker was yanked for the A/C since their dryer was gas. They didn't know if the circuit worked, but they hadn't touched it or had any work done around it besides removing the breaker while they owned the house.

Armed with that information, I flipped off the main breaker (100 amp service), verified the panel was dead, and re-installed the dryer breaker since there was still room in the panel. A few other breakers (including the 40 amp electric stove breaker) needed to be moved around to match up with existing wire lengths. Every moved wire was secured into its breaker, and no wires popped loose when I yanked on them. No loose ends were left in the panel. I tested the breakers I moved, and got 120 volts at each terminal when testing terminal to ground. The dryer and stove work fine, at least when briefly testing them.

I think I did everything right. Anything I should be on the lookout for?

 

[JC1]

It sounds like you did the right thing. How many breakers did you move in total?

Gotta love people that take short cuts (previous owner). I would make sure you re-label the circuits you moved if needed.

Regards, JC.

 

[JHZR2]

Sounds like you did well. I probably would have taken some leads and run a 9V battery on the dryer leads to test them first... But since it appears that they work (Im assuming its grounded too and that there are continuity on all wires, which is why I like to check with the 9V), then I think youre fine.

 

[sciphi]

I had to move 4 breakers in total. The stove breaker, the dryer breaker, and two other single breakers that I don't know where they go. All the other circuits are labeled except those two.

I attempted to probe the dryer outlet with my multimeter, but didn't get anything. I'm guessing the leads weren't long enough to reach the contacts. Halfway plugging in the dryer and testing it like that didn't appeal to me, since I didn't want an inadvertent short in case the leads got dropped. My non-contact electrical tester registered juice at the outlet. Combined with getting 120 volts on each leg of the circuit at the breaker, I plugged in the dryer and gave it a shot. It worked fine, so I'm assuming all's well.

 

[eljefino]

Seems like they didn't want to spring $10 for a new breaker or knock out the punch-outs. You did well.

 

[Donald]

Only one thing to look at. Some electricians may run say 12-3 to a pair of bedrooms and then split it up and use one hot for one bedroom and the other hot for the other bedroom. They should use a 2 pole breaker. But some might use a pair of 1 pole breakers. The important thing is the each hot from the 12-3 wire needs to be on one side of the 220V coming into the house. Given the setup the neutral only carries the difference. If one bedroom had a 5 amp load and the other had a 2 amp load, the neutral would only carry 3 amps.

The problem might come in if both breakers got connected to the same side of 220V. Then if each bedroom had a 15 amp load, the neutral should carry 0 amps, but instead carries 30 amps.

That is the only real issue to worry about when moving breakers around. The electricity will work either way, but one way the neutral will carry far more than its rated for.

 

[groomerz]

I hope you know what your doing as moving breakers can unbalance a panel and overload neutrals iwould make sure the breakers you moved stayed on the original buss bar. If you change circuits to different buss bars you should have an electrician measure amp load on each buss bar for balance and to measure amps on neutrals to check for overloads as there is no protection on overloaded neutrals. Like was said 2 circuits of 15 amps on different bussbar or phase with shared neutral at full amps neutral amp will be zero, if you moved 2 breakers that were designed to share a neutral to the same bussbar you will overload the neutral sending 30 amps thru a neutral wire rated for 15. You will not trip a breaker but burn up neutral wire and possibly cause a fire

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Only one thing to look at. Some electricians may run say 12-3 to a pair of bedrooms and then split it up and use one hot for one bedroom and the other hot for the other bedroom. They should use a 2 pole breaker. But some might use a pair of 1 pole breakers. The important thing is the each hot from the 12-3 wire needs to be on one side of the 220V coming into the house. Given the setup the neutral only carries the difference. If one bedroom had a 5 amp load and the other had a 2 amp load, the neutral would only carry 3 amps.

The problem might come in if both breakers got connected to the same side of 220V. Then if each bedroom had a 15 amp load, the neutral should carry 0 amps, but instead carries 30 amps.

That is the only real issue to worry about when moving breakers around. The electricity will work either way, but one way the neutral will carry far more than its rated for.


Thanks, I'll have to double-check that. I believe I did, and I'll double-check it tomorrow.

I don't believe I have much on the individual breakers I moved since my lighting is mostly LED and we aren't running any power-hog appliances like heaters, but, you know what they say about assuming.

 

[sciphi]

Here's a photo from the home inspection. Notice the two disconnected wires. Those are the hot wires for the dryer circuit breaker. And, the folks who ran the A/C line used the (excess capacity) dryer breaker instead of putting in a 25-amp breaker:

Here's a photo of the panel currently. I moved the breaker for the stove down to the bottom (occupying the two open slots on the left in the picture above), the A/C has a correct 25-amp breaker, and the dryer breaker is under the A/C breaker (and now powering the dryer):

More through dumb luck, only having slots open on a single side of the panel, and needing to put breakers where the wiring was than anything else, I believe have the panel in the order it should have been in all along. The two single breakers I disconnected went right back into the slots they came out of, and running the wires they originally did. There was no way around that due to the wire lengths, thankfully!

There aren't any tandem breakers or anything fancy in there. From my limited understanding, a double breaker that spans both busses should keep the panel in balance since it's drawing from both busses. Applying to my case, putting the single breakers back where they came and powering what they powered while adding a double breaker shouldn't disrupt the amp balance between the busses since the new breaker is drawing from both. Am I correct?

With that new information, did I unwittingly do exactly what was supposed to happen, or is this pooch still hosed?

 

[Donald]

A double breaker draws from both legs of 220V. Unless you went out of your way to put single pole breakers only on one leg of 220V you should be OK with balance of the box. Given random use of electricity in various rooms.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: Donald
A double breaker draws from both legs of 220V. Unless you went out of your way to put single pole breakers only on one leg of 220V you should be OK with balance of the box. Given random use of electricity in various rooms.


I didn't do that. The limited space I had forced my hand in where things went. The two single breakers I disturbed went back where they came from.

Looks like I'm in the clear. Thanks for your help!