Hitachi Zinc free hydraulic oil

[nate379]

Trying to understand the oil that Hitachi wants for their machines.

Anyone know what year they started wanting zinc free?

I have a 2013 XZ40U3. The book recommends the Hitachi Super Ex HN46, which I can get, in limited quantitties for about $200 a pail, so I'm looking at about $1200 every year or so in oil.

It also lists Rando HD 46 and a few others, which aren't zinc free. I'm not understanding this, as the correct cross for the HN46 is Chevron Clarity 46 or P66 Powerflow NZ HE.

And even then, 46 weight is quite thick for winter use, even 32 weight is thick.

What's the stink with ashless (zinc free) if they are still specing it? I've read everything from hydraulics failing, pumps gernading, others claim they've been using AW32 for thousands of hrs without issue, etc.

Nearly everything else I have uses regular AW32, like Megaflow or Rando, so would be great keeping inventory down, but I can get Clarity AW32 for around $100 a pail.

 

[MolaKule]

@nate379 Do a google search on CLARITY® SYNTHETICHYDRAULIC OIL AW FORCURRENT GENERATION OFHITACHI-JOHN DEERE EXCAVATORS

Many hydraulic systems for agriculture and food processing are switching over to fluids that contain zero heavy metals or almost zero heavy metals.

Anti-Wear/Anti-Oxidants such as ZDDP are being replaced by other chemistry's.

Hydraulic fluids aren't classified by grade or 'weights' but by the ISO VG system or 'viscosity grade' system. It appears that an ISO 46 VG is being speced for your equipment.

Here is an ISO chart showing ISO viscosities:

 

[oil pan 4]

Yeah I used to work in a food factory. They loved their over priced zinc free greases, lubes and hydraulic oils.
Don't run that crap unless you are forced to by some regulation.

 

[nate379]

@nate379 Do a google search on CLARITY® SYNTHETICHYDRAULIC OIL AW FORCURRENT GENERATION OFHITACHI-JOHN DEERE EXCAVATORS

Many hydraulic systems for agriculture and food processing are switching over to fluids that contain zero heavy metals or almost zero heavy metals.

Anti-Wear/Anti-Oxidants such as ZDDP are being replaced by other chemistry's.

Hydraulic fluids aren't classified by grade or 'weights' but by the ISO VG system or 'viscosity grade' system. It appears that an ISO 46 VG is being speced for your equipment.

Here is an ISO chart showing ISO viscosities:

View attachment 185416​

Yeah I read that, I work for a Chevron distributor so have access to a bunch of that stuff.
No access to Hitachi/Deere info though which is why I'm asking what the stink over zinc free is.
Everything else I use takes zinc AW32 so a pain to stock expensive oil JUST for 1 excavator.

Correct, that's why I said iso46 is really thick.

We normally use 15, 22 or 32 in equipment here. Rought 0, 5, and 10 weight if crossed over to engine oils.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Trying to understand the oil that Hitachi wants for their machines.

Anyone know what year they started wanting zinc free?

I have a 2013 XZ40U3. The book recommends the Hitachi Super Ex HN46, which I can get, in limited quantitties for about $200 a pail, so I'm looking at about $1200 every year or so in oil.

It also lists Rando HD 46 and a few others, which aren't zinc free. I'm not understanding this, as the correct cross for the HN46 is Chevron Clarity 46 or P66 Powerflow NZ HE.

And even then, 46 weight is quite thick for winter use, even 32 weight is thick.

What's the stink with ashless (zinc free) if they are still specing it? I've read everything from hydraulics failing, pumps gernading, others claim they've been using AW32 for thousands of hrs without issue, etc.

Nearly everything else I have uses regular AW32, like Megaflow or Rando, so would be great keeping inventory down, but I can get Clarity AW32 for around $100 a pail.

Hitachi / Deere went to a zinc free fluid in the 90s. You do not have to use a zinc free fluid, just recommended by Hitachi.

I don’t know what pump manufacturer is in that ‘hoe off the top of my head. But I would call the Chevron tech hotline Monday and ask them their advice. They should be able to help you decide between AW32 and 46.

Personally I would run P66 HE Nz 46. But I understand that isn’t cost efficient. NZ fluids typically have a longer life span than traditional hydraulic fluids. And being a higher VI helps the pump life and cycle time.

Not sure your operation, but if you’re operating around certain water ways, you are required to run an Nz fluid. (I doubt this is your situation, but just noting.)

 

[nate379]

Hitachi / Deere went to a zinc free fluid in the 90s. You do not have to use a zinc free fluid, just recommended by Hitachi.

I don’t know what pump manufacturer is in that ‘hoe off the top of my head. But I would call the Chevron tech hotline Monday and ask them their advice. They should be able to help you decide between AW32 and 46.

Personally I would run P66 HE Nz 46. But I understand that isn’t cost efficient. NZ fluids typically have a longer life span than traditional hydraulic fluids. And being a higher VI helps the pump life and cycle time.

Not sure your operation, but if you’re operating around certain water ways, you are required to run an Nz fluid. (I doubt this is your situation, but just noting.)

We've built a few bridges and done wetland work that required Army Corp of Engineers permits and its nothing that was required.
Other machine is a mud 90s 200 Hitachi, it has a few thousand hours on cheap AW32.
Didn't know there was anything else until starting this job ~2 years ago.

 

[Foxtrot08]

We've built a few bridges and done wetland work that required Army Corp of Engineers permits and its nothing that was required.
Other machine is a mud 90s 200 Hitachi, it has a few thousand hours on cheap AW32.
Didn't know there was anything else until starting this job ~2 years ago.

You would actually be surprised by the wetlands and bridge work. A lot of regulations around water ways and having a zinc free fluid. Either way, that doesn’t really matter for the sake of conversation. Just a reason why Hitachi / Deere made their machines with zinc free fluid.

Sounds like your experiences show that a 32 will work. Most hydraulic pump manufacturers have a viscosity range they want to stay at, based on the temperature the fluid normally operates at.

Rexroth wants their pumps to have no lower than a 3 cst @ 100c - or an ISO AW22. And no more than 400cst @ 0c - or an AW32.

So at 40c - which should be around operating temperature for your excavator, outside of running a hammer, mulching head or something demanding like that. AW46 is on the thicker side, but a solid choice. However, AW32 is acceptable.

I’m not sure that Hitachi runs Rexroth pumps. Do you know what sort of pump is on there?

 

[nate379]

You would actually be surprised by the wetlands and bridge work. A lot of regulations around water ways and having a zinc free fluid. Either way, that doesn’t really matter for the sake of conversation. Just a reason why Hitachi / Deere made their machines with zinc free fluid.

Sounds like your experiences show that a 32 will work. Most hydraulic pump manufacturers have a viscosity range they want to stay at, based on the temperature the fluid normally operates at.

Rexroth wants their pumps to have no lower than a 3 cst @ 100c - or an ISO AW22. And no more than 400cst @ 0c - or an AW32.

So at 40c - which should be around operating temperature for your excavator, outside of running a hammer, mulching head or something demanding like that. AW46 is on the thicker side, but a solid choice. However, AW32 is acceptable.

I’m not sure that Hitachi runs Rexroth pumps. Do you know what sort of pump is on there?

Not sure.

Use it in roughly -20* to 75F*. Mostly 0-50* area though.

 

[George Bynum]

@nate379 says "We normally use 15, 22 or 32 in equipment here." @MolaKule is the expert here, but at your ambient temperatures, I'd be very wary of an ISO22 fluid, and plum scared of an ISO15 fluid. What viscosity does the machine manufacturer (Hitachi?) recommend?

 

[nate379]

@nate379 says "We normally use 15, 22 or 32 in equipment here." @MolaKule is the expert here, but at your ambient temperatures, I'd be very wary of an ISO22 fluid, and plum scared of an ISO15 fluid. What viscosity does the machine manufacturer (Hitachi?) recommend?

32 and/or 46, depending on year.

Even 32 would take half a day of heating to thaw when it's -50* Rando HDZ15 is mostly what we sell here.
Or p66 Arctic low pour

 

[George Bynum]

32 and/or 46, depending on year.

Even 32 would take half a day of heating to thaw when it's -50* Rando HDZ15 is mostly what we sell here.
Or p66 Arctic low pour

I understand. I ignorantly didn't see the Alaska. I'm one of the old-timers who are not in love with High Viscosity Index fluids, but you are in a location where one is appropriate. The coolant thermostat will control engine temperature but not hydraulic oil temperature.

With "normal" ISO32, and a 10 cSt lower limit, it looks like 165F might be an upper limit. With ISO22, that limit appears to be more like 145F.

I've no idea how they control (cool) oil temperature.

Your HDZ 15 has the high VI you want, but there aren't any typical curves. Chevron (Texaco) will probably furnish them if you ask.

(High VI fluids shear down and need, GENERALLY, more frequent changes than "plain" fluids; but you know that.)

 

[MolaKule]

32 and/or 46, depending on year.

Even 32 would take half a day of heating to thaw when it's -50* Rando HDZ15 is mostly what we sell here.
Or p66 Arctic low pour

I think an ISO 32 would be the lowest viscosity hydraulic oil I would use.

Now if the hydraulic system manf. says you "can" use an oil with ZDDP then use it unless the construction firm or the supplier contract forbids it.

One also has to realize that just because the fluid has low or no ZDDP, it doesn't mean there are no anti-wear chemistry's in it; in fact, there are more than one anti-wear chemistry in a no ZDDP fluid.

I would also suggest speaking to Dave Ward at HPL about your requirements.

Hydraulic Fluids | High Performance Lubricants

 

[nate379]

I think an ISO 32 would be the lowest viscosity hydraulic oil I would use.

Now if the hydraulic system manf. says you "can" use an oil with ZDDP then use it unless the construction firm or the supplier contract forbids it.

One also has to realize that just because the fluid has low or no ZDDP, it doesn't mean there are no anti-wear chemistry's in it; in fact, there are more than one anti-wear chemistry in a no ZDDP fluid.

I would also suggest speaking to Dave Ward at HPL about your requirements.

Hydraulic Fluids | High Performance Lubricants

I talked with a Chevron grey beard said aw32 is fine.