High Mileage viscosity vs real viscosity

[Doc Holiday]

I've got a question that I've asked several Pennzoil and Castrol reps and other oil experts and no one gives me a clear answer. Is a 5w20 high mileage oil really a 5w20? My example is this, conventional 10w30 (like say Pennzoil) get energy conserving on the label. Yet no High Mileage in any weight (including 5w20) gets this spec. WHY? So it's too thick? What gives????

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Doc Holiday
I've got a question that I've asked several Pennzoil and Castrol reps and other oil experts and no one gives me a clear answer. Is a 5w20 high mileage oil really a 5w20? My example is this, conventional 10w30 (like say Pennzoil) get energy conserving on the label. Yet no High Mileage in any weight (including 5w20) gets this spec. WHY? So it's too thick? What gives????


It's not too thick because it's with the range of values for the specified weights. It's not energy conserving due to the higher levels of Zinc. Most High Mileage oils are at SL levels for zinc which is usually over 1000ppm when compared to today's SN resource conserving oils.

 

[newtoncd8]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Most High Mileage oils are at SL levels for zinc which is usually over 1000ppm when compared to today's SN resource conserving oils.


I only checked 5W30, but of the major High Mileage oils, most are at least SM:

-Pennzoil High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Castrol GTX High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Valvoline High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Mobil High Mileage 5W30 - API SM
-Quaker State 5W30 - API SM

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
Originally Posted By: volk06
Most High Mileage oils are at SL levels for zinc which is usually over 1000ppm when compared to today's SN resource conserving oils.


I only checked 5W30, but of the major High Mileage oils, most are at least SM:

-Pennzoil High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Castrol GTX High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Valvoline High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Mobil High Mileage 5W30 - API SM
-Quaker State 5W30 - API SM


Mobil is now SN and new QS defy is SL. This has been a lot in the past year or 2. Can a SN rated oil be non resource conserving?

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
Originally Posted By: volk06
Most High Mileage oils are at SL levels for zinc which is usually over 1000ppm when compared to today's SN resource conserving oils.


I only checked 5W30, but of the major High Mileage oils, most are at least SM:

-Pennzoil High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Castrol GTX High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Valvoline High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Mobil High Mileage 5W30 - API SM
-Quaker State 5W30 - API SM


Mobil is now SN and new QS defy is SL. This has been a lot in the past year or 2. Can a SN rated oil be non resource conserving?


According to Mobiloil.com. both the 5W30 and the 10W30 High Mileage oils are still SL. The 10W40 High Mileage is now SN because the limit on zinc is higher for 40W and above. All three have the same level of zinc.

 

[volk06]

I was talking Mobil super. M1 is SL

 

[GMorg]

"Energy conserving" designations are performance standards, not standards of zinc level. The designation are based on relative mileage performance within grade for Xw20 and Xw30 weights. "Thicker" oils within SAE 20 grade are not going to qualify, even if they are still thinner than SAE 30 grade oils.

 

[newtoncd8]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
Originally Posted By: volk06
Most High Mileage oils are at SL levels for zinc which is usually over 1000ppm when compared to today's SN resource conserving oils.


I only checked 5W30, but of the major High Mileage oils, most are at least SM:

-Pennzoil High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Castrol GTX High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Valvoline High Mileage 5W30 - API SN
-Mobil High Mileage 5W30 - API SM
-Quaker State 5W30 - API SM


Mobil is now SN and new QS defy is SL. This has been a lot in the past year or 2. Can a SN rated oil be non resource conserving?


My typo, I meant to say Mobil "Super" High Mileage 5W30 is API SN.

 

[Doc Holiday]

so a High Mileage 5w30 is going to out flow a regular 10w30 in the cold...NO. Let's look at Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 vs. Mobil 1 reg 10w30. The cst @ 40c for the hm is 69.2 yet is only 63.2 for the 10w30. The 5w30HM is "thicker" here. The pour point for the HM 5w30 is -39 yet the pour point for the 10w30 is -42. Again the hm5w30 doesn't flow as well in the cold. So again I pose the same question, how is it that the HM's are thicker? If you look at other brands, you'll also find 5w20HM (mobil doesn't have one) that is "thicker" in cold than a reg. 10w30...

 

[Doc Holiday]

looks like no real answer. Makes me wonder if the weights on the bottle are true weights. The lines seem blurred on this one.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Mobil is now SN and new QS defy is SL. This has been a lot in the past year or 2. Can a SN rated oil be non resource conserving?


Sure, why not? There are plenty of SM oils that were non-resource conserving. SM HDEOs come immediately to mind. With SN, certainly any straight weights or 10w-40s or the like.

SM versus SM/GF-4 or SN versus SN/GF-5.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Doc Holiday
so a High Mileage 5w30 is going to out flow a regular 10w30 in the cold...NO. Let's look at Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 vs. Mobil 1 reg 10w30. The cst @ 40c for the hm is 69.2 yet is only 63.2 for the 10w30. The 5w30HM is "thicker" here. The pour point for the HM 5w30 is -39 yet the pour point for the 10w30 is -42. Again the hm5w30 doesn't flow as well in the cold. So again I pose the same question, how is it that the HM's are thicker? If you look at other brands, you'll also find 5w20HM (mobil doesn't have one) that is "thicker" in cold than a reg. 10w30...



You need to also factor in the VI. Caterham?