I'm sure if you leave Amsoil in for 75K, it will cause sludge, too.
Here ye, Here ye, Pennzoil causes sludge!
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At the risk of earning a flame job, may I make an anecdotal report from days gone by? This is more to gather some thoughts than it is to pound on Pennzoil so, please, no death threats. I'm armed!
Anyway, I worked at a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer back in the '80s. It was my understanding that the factory oil fill then was Pennzoil. Upon tearing engines down for warrantly work, often before the first oil change but always within the warranty period, the engines were really gunked up inside. The old waxy sludge scenario... sometimes mild, sometimes massive but everpresent. This was in Central California's mild climate, so it wasn't an issue of cold weather. Stop and go driving and the then new 7500 mile interals probably had something to do with it. II also don't know for an absolute fact that the factory fill WAS Pennzoil, but the symptom was omnipresnet on almost every car we worked on. I had used Pennzoil prior and didn't have any particular bias against it, though I admit the sight of all that goo did give me pause and eliceted an "eeeeewwww!" or two. I had switched to Castrol by then, but I used Pennzoil in my older cars or cars I was fixing up to sell because I basically trusted it and it was lots cheaper.
Anyway, I worked at a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer back in the '80s. It was my understanding that the factory oil fill then was Pennzoil. Upon tearing engines down for warrantly work, often before the first oil change but always within the warranty period, the engines were really gunked up inside. The old waxy sludge scenario... sometimes mild, sometimes massive but everpresent. This was in Central California's mild climate, so it wasn't an issue of cold weather. Stop and go driving and the then new 7500 mile interals probably had something to do with it. II also don't know for an absolute fact that the factory fill WAS Pennzoil, but the symptom was omnipresnet on almost every car we worked on. I had used Pennzoil prior and didn't have any particular bias against it, though I admit the sight of all that goo did give me pause and eliceted an "eeeeewwww!" or two. I had switched to Castrol by then, but I used Pennzoil in my older cars or cars I was fixing up to sell because I basically trusted it and it was lots cheaper.
Pennzoil has never been factory fill for anyone.
Back in the 80's the factory fill for Ford was Group I CONOCO.
I'm retired now so anyone that want's to blast Pennzoil, go ahead, I don't care.
Back in the 80's the factory fill for Ford was Group I CONOCO.
I'm retired now so anyone that want's to blast Pennzoil, go ahead, I don't care.
It seems this thread is destined to last as long as the Pennzoil = sludge rumor...
There you have it! The reason why there was sludge: Group I oils. ANY low-end dino was challenged by the ever-increasing demands the newer engines were placing on them.
Add in 3-5K (or longer) OCI's, a plugged PCV Valve and/or not-so-well-engineered-emissions componentry to meet EPA standards, and sludge will form on thse old oils in many cases. Let's not forget shoddy design! An engine that was designed poorly will sludge on just about any oil, including Pennzoil. They just got a bad rap for it since "it's the oil's fault" it sludged up. Yeah right.
How many used oil analysis of group I oils do we have here that made it to the 5-6K mark? Near zero. If not zero...
Heh, heh, I've been dying to use this little gem I just plagiarized from another site:
Johnny: I echo ToyotnSaturn's AHA!. A Group 1 Conoco oil wouldn't be too great, but was Pennzoil any better in that era ('81-86)? There were a lot of Group 1 oils then. Also, if I may be so bold, how did you come by the information that Ford used Conoco? I can't really argue the fact because all I know is what I was told at the time, but a citation of your source(s) would enhance your already sterling rep as a straight shooter! Plus, I'm just curious if there's an interesting story behind it!
I have heard this rumor so many times and even from a good friend's dad who was a private BMW mechanic for over 25 years and tore apart many engines stating he saw more issues with sluding when Pennzoil was specifically used. I personally just stay away from the brand since there are so many other good brands out there to choose from.
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My Dad was a mechanic from the mid 60's until his death in 1992. He preached the Pennzoil = sludge story, too. He always told me not to use it.
I've got some in my garage as I type this. Sorry, Pops.
I've got some in my garage as I type this. Sorry, Pops.
This is not that hard to settle. Bring Pennzoil oil up to high temps alongside another oil and find out. I've done it already (Synthetic Pennzoil against Mobil 1 (SL 10w30 oils). The latter blew the former away in terms of weight loss (volatility), sludge/varnish formation, and even flash point. Valvoline Synthetic 10w30 performed the same as Mobil 1 to give you another reference point. If you want to see how the latest formulations compare or test non-synthetic formulations go ahead and test yourself, but people that think that recent Pennzoil synthetic formulations (SL versions) are as resistant to sludge as Mobil 1 or Valvoline Synpower need to adjust their thinking. Maybe Pennzoil has improved in last year or so...I'll believe it when I see it.
Jim Allen said:
Conoco supplies Motorcraft oil. Since Ford owns Motorcraft...
Is it possible that AT ONE TIME IN THE DISTANT PAST this was true about Pennzoil? I mention it only as a possibility. We know how a bad reputation, or an alleged bad reputation, can stick like sludge on a valve cover. This had to have started SOMEWHERE?! As I recall the bad rep, it had to do with Pennsylvania crude oils and the brush once tarred Quaker State as much as Pennzoil. If we all chime in on this, there are probably some of us old enough to remember when and where it began. I guess that might be the first step in putting it to bed. Yeah, right!
I've put this to bed so many time over the past 21 years the bedspread is wore out. I will let someone else deal with it now.
As for as CONOCO making oil for Ford, they got the contract in 1967 when they use to call it Rotunda Oil.
JAG: Try your little test with the new Pennzoil Platinum. If it is an acutal scientific test please publish the results. If it's something that your cooking on your stove at home, well enough said.
As for as CONOCO making oil for Ford, they got the contract in 1967 when they use to call it Rotunda Oil.
JAG: Try your little test with the new Pennzoil Platinum. If it is an acutal scientific test please publish the results. If it's something that your cooking on your stove at home, well enough said.
Won't this thread ever die?
I doubt that Pennzoil or any other brand causes sludge problems.
"All the oils proved excellent at preventing sludge. At least part of the reason may be that sludge is more apt to form during cold startups and short trips, and the cabs were rarely out of service long enough for their engine to get cold. Even so, the accumulations in our engines were so light that we wouldn't expect sludge to be a problem with any of these oils under most conditions."
This is from the Consumer Reports 4 1/2 million mile oil test that was published in 1996.
Springs.
"All the oils proved excellent at preventing sludge. At least part of the reason may be that sludge is more apt to form during cold startups and short trips, and the cabs were rarely out of service long enough for their engine to get cold. Even so, the accumulations in our engines were so light that we wouldn't expect sludge to be a problem with any of these oils under most conditions."
This is from the Consumer Reports 4 1/2 million mile oil test that was published in 1996.
Springs.
"Stop and go driving and the then new 7500 mile interals probably had something to do with it."
That combination is a recipe for guaranteed sludge with any conventional oil. Cut that OCI in half, and, unless you have an oil-cooking/coking turbo, problem solved!
That combination is a recipe for guaranteed sludge with any conventional oil. Cut that OCI in half, and, unless you have an oil-cooking/coking turbo, problem solved!
This thread won't die because some people are members of the faith (they BELIEVE certain things), while others actually have data. The believers will make every excuse so they can maintain their faith.
Oh well, some people you just can't reach.
All oils leave behind some ****. It's just a matter of how much.
All oils leave behind some ****. It's just a matter of how much.
Just wanted to post on this thread. It started when America was just an incredible idea!
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