Rob are you joking?????
You must be joking?
You must be joking?
Here ye, Here ye, Pennzoil causes sludge!
- Thread starter Drew99GT
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There's another thread just in the last couple days talking about dealer bulk oil. Unless the truck delivering the oil came straight from the Pennzoil distribution plant and was owned by Pennzoil, I truly doubt it was Pennzoil in those owner's cars.
In the years I worked behind the parts counter for Ford/L/M, never once did I see a sludged 4.6L.
It's the oil. Bulk oil is not to be trusted by most dealers. I betcha if you saw alot of sludged engines at your dealer and at surrounding dealers, it's the bulk oil your vendor is placing in the tanks. Probably not even SL quality stuff...SJ is my guess. Why? Because it's cheap!
I don't buy that PZ causes sludge. I'm not a brand loyalist, I'm a realist. I've seen too much crap and too many dealers try to jip the customer. I also worked for good dealers where that just didn't happen. Either way, NO ONE knew what was TRULY in those bulk oil shipments. Without a VOA, no one ever will.
In the years I worked behind the parts counter for Ford/L/M, never once did I see a sludged 4.6L.
It's the oil. Bulk oil is not to be trusted by most dealers. I betcha if you saw alot of sludged engines at your dealer and at surrounding dealers, it's the bulk oil your vendor is placing in the tanks. Probably not even SL quality stuff...SJ is my guess. Why? Because it's cheap!
I don't buy that PZ causes sludge. I'm not a brand loyalist, I'm a realist. I've seen too much crap and too many dealers try to jip the customer. I also worked for good dealers where that just didn't happen. Either way, NO ONE knew what was TRULY in those bulk oil shipments. Without a VOA, no one ever will.
Now it is bulk Pennzoil being the culprit! The stuff is crap. Beyond this internet site believe it or not the mechanics I have contact with which are over 20 mechanics total all agree that Pennzoil is JUNK. They all have seen the results how Pennzoil clogs up engines. The oil pans are the main source. Inches and inches of gunk in them.
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He's not. . . First off, I don't use Pennzoil, I use other products that have done great for me. I don't have a dog in this fight. That said, two thoughts. First, Rob, your observation proves nothing about Pennzoil. Perhaps it's something about the engines themselves, perhaps these cars are getting second rate oil from the bulk drums. Who knows for sure. Could be anything. Second, we have over 5,500 members from whom we have accumulated several dozen pages of UOA result postings. Having just searched them and examined the info we have here, I don't see anything that sets Pennzoil apart as being a defective product. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but you'd think that if it really were a defective product the consistently produced sludge, it might just begin showing that side of its personality in our UOA results.
Without some hard, objective information, I've got to conclude that your negative feelings about Pennzoil are no different than the positive ones that loyalists have -- they're just feelings. You're surely entitled to yours, but respectfully, I don't think you should be offering them as hard fact. They're not.
I would never use Pennzoil... I bought a 89 Civic with 60k, ran pennzoil in it and there is a nasty brown film inside the engine.
The theory that Pennzoil causes sludge has been debunked many times. It's the best selling OTC oil in America, so it's not surprising that a few engines here and there have sludge, because of the fact that it's the most widely used. This antedoctal evidence does not take other factors into account. It's not scientific.
VOA and UOA show that Pennzoil is a decent oil, if used properly.
No news here, move along.
VOA and UOA show that Pennzoil is a decent oil, if used properly.
No news here, move along.
Rob, as I stated, I worked in parts for years. The vendors/jobbers sold "whatever" bulk under the preferred name. You cannot prove that PZ was in those bulk trucks! Unless, of course, you saw it come from the PZ tanks yourself. Which of course, you, your mechanic friends, me, nor anyone else would ever see that. So, 95% chance it's NOT bulk Pennzoil, but rather bulk BrandX.
We DON'T KNOW what was put in to all those sludged engines. We will never know. It's unfair, and off-base to say that a certain brand, PZ in this case, caused the sludge problem.
I don't care for Valvoline at all (others here can point out my past posts on my anti-Valvo stance). However, I can't blame them for sludge in these very same engines. Nor can we make the same assumption for any other oil on the market.
I'd be willing to wager that THEY are the culprit for the sludge issues by substituting cheapo BrandX oil even though it was labeled "Pennzoil" or "Valvoline" or "Quaker State". I've seen the bulk oil swap too often. Do we tell our customers "sorry, Mr. So-and-so, our bulk oil vendor uses really cheap cr@p so your engine is sludged up." Nope, we tell them "Pennzoil sludged your motor up". Thus these old wive's tales mill starts here. This also falls into the category of misinformation rather than information. Customer and shop think that "This brand" or "that brand" are bad oils, but all along, their bulk vendor has been giving them el-cheapo SJ 10w30 oil in their bulk tanks. The wool hsa been pulled over all their eyes, just like in your case.
Perhaps if we can only used bottled Pennzoil on some of these very same cars every 3-4K, then tear the engine down at 150K, will we actually know if Pennzoil caused the sludge. This is the only way to remove the cheapo-bulk oil carrier variable from the equation. And keep the engines sludge free.
To all the Pennzoil nay-sayers, your right Pennzoil is crap!!! It is so stinkin bad they only give you a 10yr/250000 miles warranty while Brand X gives you a......
Hmmmm THINK I WILL STICK WITH PENNZOIL.
You and your "mechanic friends" can stick with whatever.
Dave
Hmmmm THINK I WILL STICK WITH PENNZOIL.
You and your "mechanic friends" can stick with whatever.
Dave
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006187
Guess this guy was just lucky.
1 in a million, no make that 1 in a trillion.
The rest of America is driving around with sludged up engines waiting to explode any moment
Guess this guy was just lucky.
1 in a million, no make that 1 in a trillion.
The rest of America is driving around with sludged up engines waiting to explode any moment
Mr. Taggs...What is your beef with Pennzoil? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's that simple!
Mr. Taggs,
This is a rather technical forum and we usually are accustomed to dealing with technical facts, not heresay or internet myths.
Some observations regarding your assertions:
1. Pennzoil, Quaker State & Shell Formula motor oils are all formulated from the same base oils produced at Shell/Motiva refineries. Why do your 20 mechanic friends assert that only the Pennzoil brand oils produce "gunk"?
2. Pennzoil brand oils, specifically in the 5w30 & 10w30 weights have the "Purebase" trademark on the bottle, which indicate that the base oils are Grp II produced using the Chevron Hydrocracking technology. These are high quality base oils without the "sludge" generating components of Grp I base oils typical of the 1980's and 1990's.
3. All the Pennzoil grades have passed the clean engine tests per ASTM D 6593 for sludge & varnish associated with GF-3 and the new GF-4 specifications. How does Pennzoil "mysteriously" pass these rigid tests and yet produce "gunk in oil pans" per your claims?
Please do not perceive this as an attempt to "flame" your opinions. You are entitled to your beliefs.
Rather, it is more of a recognition of the technical contributions that Johnny from Pennzoil has made to this forum and the fact that he deals with this issue in such a professional manner.
It's my advice that you review your assertions as the chances are very high that your claims lack any technical merit.
Have a good day,
Mike
Alas, you've raised several more questions than the one you believe you've answered. First, what did the previous owner run in it? How did he use it? What care has the car received? From you and the previous owner? Perhaps most importantly, when you ran Pennzoil, how did you use it, and under what conditions? Even the very best oils have their limits. Used under particularly harsh conditions, the limits of an average dino can be apallingly short.
Again, I'm not saying Pennzoil is good stuff, just that you can't draw broad conclusions without nailing down the other variables. All that said, of course, use whatever you feel like using.
And here's a hint: I bought an 88 Civic new, and drove it for 10 years, logging 150k miles. With a steady diet of Mobil 1 on about a 5k OCI, the inside of the engine looked as silvery and clean on the day I traded it as it did the day I bought it. Maybe you should stop worrying about the past, do an ARX to clean things up, and then move on to M1 or GC.
WOW!!! I had to put on the fire suit after reading all of this. I've been away to long.
The only way I know how to respond to this is issue a challenge to Mr. Taggs and all of his mechanic friends.
Here is the challenge. I am now in Houston. I will be leaving Houston on Thursday afternoon. I had planned on going back through either AR or MO, but I would be glad to go through KS. I drive a Ford. It has 40,000 miles on it using only Pennzoil with 5,000 to 8,000 mile oil changes. To make it worse, it's only had that nasty Pennzoil 5W20 in it. Here is the deal: You and your mechanic friends tear it down, if you can find a thimble full of sluge and a trace of varnish; I will pay for all the parts and labor, and buy each of you the best steak in town, BUT, if you don't find the sluge and varnish, you pay for the parts and labor, buy me the steak, a tank full of gas for coming through Kansas, and a night at your local motel. So, here is the bottom line, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. I AM READY FOR THE CHALLANGE!!
The only way I know how to respond to this is issue a challenge to Mr. Taggs and all of his mechanic friends.
Here is the challenge. I am now in Houston. I will be leaving Houston on Thursday afternoon. I had planned on going back through either AR or MO, but I would be glad to go through KS. I drive a Ford. It has 40,000 miles on it using only Pennzoil with 5,000 to 8,000 mile oil changes. To make it worse, it's only had that nasty Pennzoil 5W20 in it. Here is the deal: You and your mechanic friends tear it down, if you can find a thimble full of sluge and a trace of varnish; I will pay for all the parts and labor, and buy each of you the best steak in town, BUT, if you don't find the sluge and varnish, you pay for the parts and labor, buy me the steak, a tank full of gas for coming through Kansas, and a night at your local motel. So, here is the bottom line, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. I AM READY FOR THE CHALLANGE!!
Oh! if this Ford does not have enough milage on it, I have a 1997 Audi A6 Quattro with 130,000 miles on it at home, and I offer the same challenge on it. But maybe that would not be fare as it has had only Pennzoil 5W50 or Pennzoil 5W40 Synthetic.
Mr. Taggs, I see from your profile that you are an equipment operator and your were born in 1966. By 1966 my family had put over 300,000 miles on cars using Pennzoil in them without the so called sludge problem. I personally put 127,00 miles on a VW bus using nothing but Pennzoil, and it even made it through Woodstock in 1969. And we can't blame it on the heat, as I lived in Texas for 40 years before moving to Wisconsin. So let's see, 40 years of hellish heat in Texas and 15 years in the frozen tundra and no suldge.
Mr. Taggs, I see from your profile that you are an equipment operator and your were born in 1966. By 1966 my family had put over 300,000 miles on cars using Pennzoil in them without the so called sludge problem. I personally put 127,00 miles on a VW bus using nothing but Pennzoil, and it even made it through Woodstock in 1969. And we can't blame it on the heat, as I lived in Texas for 40 years before moving to Wisconsin. So let's see, 40 years of hellish heat in Texas and 15 years in the frozen tundra and no suldge.
Johnny he's a Troll. Don't play into his hands.
Hi sprintman. I thought Troll's were only in Australia.
I'm not playing into his hand, bcause I have a royal flush. I'm calling his hand.
It's now 12:50 AM CST and I better get to bed. I have a meeting at 7:00 AM this morning.
It's now 12:50 AM CST and I better get to bed. I have a meeting at 7:00 AM this morning.
Troll, sorry 6"1' tall and 200 plus pounds too large to be a troll! You are being baited. Just want to see what the brand passion is all about for Pennzoil. Pennzoil is pretty good when mixed with diesel fuel to burn old tires!
Johnny, that comment alone is worth a new topic!
I gotta agree with the rumor; my old man did have a Maverick that a friend used for an auto class; he got a new interior, wheels & tires, and a crate motor. The teacher also had a beater that he rebuilt and used Pennzoil in, it indeed had sludge (with the 3000 mi dump). He also did make a Fram blow apart.
But in modern day SM, SL, or SJ; its long dead (with the post '73 "muscle cars
")
But in modern day SM, SL, or SJ; its long dead (with the post '73 "muscle cars
")
Pennzoil doesn't cause sludge, people do.
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