Help me pick some A/S tires

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P6000? Yuk.



pi_p6000.jpg


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P6000

The "wave" groove on the left would channel water to the left. The "wave" groove on the right would just dead-end before the center groove. I suppose a small amount of water could be sucked into the right groove for a little standing water relief, but wouldn't it be a better idea to simply evacuate the water?

I guess that's not as bad as my Dunlop D60M2 tires. It was a great dry weather tire, but they improved the steering response/handling by stopping the channel right at the edge of the tire. It would then dead-end the water evacuation channel and hydroplane in very little standing water at highway speeds.

I just wonder where people like GC4lunch find roads where standing water is never an issue.

As for the RE960AS - that also evacuates a small amount of water through the sides, although most would be pumped out of the three wide longitudinal grooves.
 
Well, I ended up with neither choice that I had made earlier.

I ended up getting a set of Toyo Proxes TPT. I couldn't beat the deal. $75.00 off a set of 4 and a 500 test drive. If I don't like them I can take them back and get something different. This is from Toyo. They also have a 60,000 mile warranty (400/A/A rating). Got all 4 mounted and balanced for $430 out the door.

These are a performance touring tire. So far I love them. They ride much smoother, are stickier and very stable in corners, and are much quieter (they do have a sound between 50 and 54MPH, but it's not bad - the Bridgestones always had a sound at any speed
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). The joints and the little reflectors for the lane markers I can hardly feel. They are also made in Japan – this always make me feel a little better from a quality standpoint (don't flame me for saying this
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).

Now I know where the "stone" in Bridgestone comes from
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Thanks for all the help everyone. Even though I didn't go with any of your recommendations, I did use some of your knowledge when picking these out. Bottom line, I really like these Toyos so far.

Thanks,
Brian
 
I had a few sets of P6000 when they came out, 10 years ago. I would not run them for free now.

The stone-joke is an old one....and accurate. G-009 is a nice performance a/s tire tho.
 
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btw- I rotate tires once in their lifetime and end up with perfectly flat wear.




I do the same thing. When the fronts get to about 50%, I move them to the back and the back to the front. Here they live out the rest of their lives
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I've done this ever since I had my '97 BMW 318 and it said "not" to rotate the tires. They stated in the owners manual that you will get a few more thousand miles out of them, but moving them to a different axle will only affect the performance. I have no idea what they say now since I'm married and poor... No more BMWs for me (WIFE--->)
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btw- I rotate tires once in their lifetime and end up with perfectly flat wear.




I do the same thing. When the fronts get to about 50%, I move them to the back and the back to the front. Here they live out the rest of their lives
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That doesn't fly in the land of slush and snow up here. Been there, done that, spun the car 180 and hit the curb TWICE in 5 minutes. Speed no more than 35mph. But that was 6 years ago before I got wiser
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Over here, you put your 1/2 worn tires in the rear and you get instant snap oversteer on the slippy stuff. On a RWD Bimmer, I'd imagine steering will be impossible without grip in the snow/slush.

You can certainly get away with it in TX, anywhere south of the snow belt really. It is shocking to hear that you never run into noise issues doing that, however. You must drive like nannies, whereas I drive like this
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G-009 is a nice performance a/s tire tho.




It sure is. And inexpensive, too. We've got a set on one vehicle. They ride and grip great in all weather, and wear well. Like them better than the old Dunlop D60/A2s, which were my economy-performance A/S champs for many years.

But one 009 has developed a strong radial pull. Oh well, at the price, it's cheap enough to replace the entire axle.
 
What I'll do on a FWD is buy tires in Fall, run them down until the following winter season, moving the tires with more tread up front. Rotating constantly just guarantees four 1/2 worn tires for next winter. imo, the best tread distribution is not 50/50, but more like 60/40 or even 70/30R. Also, rotating accelerates wear in general. When tires is "worn-in" on a spot on the car, it's in it's lowest wear mode. Move it and it needs to re-bed, experiencing accelerated wear in the process. I'm not debating this either.
 
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I don't rotate either, and especially not on an AWD platform. But then again, I rarely keep tires past 30k. They ALL lose significant grip and stopping power by then. But like shocks, most folks don't notice the decline.

One 009 on the front axle has had a belt problem since day 1 by all accounts. The tread has finally given in to it, so it is now pronounced. It occasionally happens since steel belting came out.

For $140 for two new ones, it's not even worth investigating further.
 
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imo, the best tread distribution is not 50/50, but more like 60/40 or even 70/30R.




Not so, most cars/trucks are nose heavy with over 60% of weight up front. So the rear end has 33% less weight and you want to give it less than 1/2 the thread depth of the front? As I said, on snow and slush, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Expect the vehicle to swap ends in ANY emergency situation. Much rather have close to equal grip between front and rear. Even with less than 1/2 tread all around, worst case is you will push, or understeer. If you are involved in racing like me, you know understeer is easily fixed by lifting off the gas or slowing down. Oversteer is far more tricky to correct, and you are likely to run out of room on the steet in bad weather.

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Also, rotating accelerates wear in general. When tires is "worn-in" on a spot on the car, it's in it's lowest wear mode. Move it and it needs to re-bed, experiencing accelerated wear in the process. I'm not debating this either.




This only proves that not rotating will wear your tire UN-evenly! Both across the contact patch OR across all 4 corners of the car. You need even wear for longer life and lower noise. What if you corded a shoulder because it sees the most wear? What if the car start to pull? Too late to fix that at half life and you will have to live with a lousy tire that is loud and pulls. Our north american HWY system puts more wear on the outside shoulder of driver's side tires, and the inside shoulder of the passenger's side tires because of the onramp offramp setup and more Right turns in general. I won't even get into specific wear due to alignment problems out there. One tire with 0 camber and 0 toe wear much differently than another tire with -ve camber and toe in/out especially after 20k+ miles.

I'll leave it at that as I don't wish to
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I dunno what kind of cars you are driving, mine wear tires flat. As for tread, I could not even get moving in winter with less than 5/32nds. More tread depth goes up front, so says my oem and Bentley manuals. Steering, power application and stopping are mostly done with the fronts, you want to put less tread up front? As far as weight, it transfers. Upon braking, the weight ~transfers~ up to the front, personally, I want the better tires up front to deal with that.
 
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More tread depth goes up front, so says my oem and Bentley manuals. Steering, power application and stopping are mostly done with the fronts, you want to put less tread up front?




I'm not sure about here, but in British Columbia, it is illegal to have studded tires on the front only. Pull the e-brake hard while cornering on icy roads to simulate the effect of totally losing only the back end!

Tire rack's article on the subject:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
 
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.....More tread depth goes up front, so says my oem and Bentley manuals......




Auto-Union,

I just discovered that some AWD's have a need to have the same or slightly larger diameter tires in the front, otherwise the center differential will burn out. Needless to say, this goes against the "industry standard" advice.

Perhaps that is what the difference is? Is it possible to have you post the pertinent passages?
 
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As far as weight, it transfers. Upon braking, the weight ~transfers~ up to the front...




6 years ago, I had exactly the same throught process as you. 2 years of driving on OEM Firestone FR680 (pretty poor tires to begin with) resulted in the fronts worn down to about 5/32. So I put them in the back for Winter 2001.

Guess what? First snow storm of the season was on Jan 31 and I made it 15 miles to work until the last 1 mile. On a slushy right hander going 35mph I lifted off the gas as I saw a Pathfinder with flashers on. Weight shifted to the front + less than half tread on the back = Instant oversteer. What do I do? Just like any driver in a panic I stomp on the brakes and stall the car as it did 180 and hit the inside curb with the left rear wheel.

A couple minutes later, SAME THING happened. This time a left hander, slush, going 25mph in 2nd gear, BOOM the right rear hits the curb.

Replaced 2 wheels, 2 lower trailing arms, 2 lower control arms, 2 hub bearings, and Oh, all 4 OEM tires with Michelin Artic Alpins in a matter of a few days.

Moral of the story, rotate your tires at least every fall and spring and NEVER put your best tires in the front if you drive above the snow belt. Getting stuck in your driveway with bad tires is better than going rear-end first into a ditch in the middle of the night, in no man's land, where you can freeze to death if the impact doesn't kill you first.

Under every winter tire page on tire rack, it says:
"Install Winter tires in sets of four only" and I know exactly what they mean.

BTW, I drive a '99 Civic Coupe. 60%/40% F/R weight distribution. Front 0 camber 0 toe, Rear -1 camber 1-2mm toe-in. 35psi Front, 32psi Rear.
 
No. I think the moral of the story is not to have worn tires on ANY wheel. But for a FWD chassis, the ones up front do most of the pulling, steering and stopping, so will suffer the effects of compromised tires first. But worn tires on the rear end can cause loss of control just as quickly.

A modern AWD chassis is extremely sensitive to circumference variances among tires, and is prone to differential failure when that variance exceeds a modest level. For that reason, replacement tires usually have to be shaved, or replaced in complete sets. That is why it is best to just leave them be, as the AWD system will impose tire wear at more uniform rates in service than rotation will.
 
My story is for trying to show people what happens if you do what you and Auto-Union suggest. Also, why are we talking about AWD? The OP has Civic. 5/32 tires are worn (6/32 is about half life), but not shot. Not all of us can afford new tires when old man winter arrives.

Listen, if you are so scared of being stuck in the snow with 5/32 tires all around, why not invest in new tires or better yet a set of dedicated winter tires. Whatever you decide, just keep the performance level of all 4 tires the same or very close. 4 winter tires will give you the best performance, 4 worn A/S tire will give you consistent performance that won't send you #@$%!-first into a ditch first time you make an emergency stop on the white stuff, or in heavy rain.

You want control, but it comes in many levels. First you need to keep the nose pointing straight. This requires equal grip (or lack thereof) across all 4 corners. Then we can talk braking, steering, and accelerating better which requires the best tires you can buy for your application.
 
dedicated winters are the way to go...
Cooper Weathermaster ST2's are my recommendations and are used on many many cars here in upstate/central NY.
 
I think you guys need driving lessons.

Nobody has every burned out a center Torsen from tire tread depth.
 
Auto-Union,

I'm not in a position to argue much about center differentials and whether or not they will burn out with differences in tread depth. I am pretty sure about the differences in overall diameter, and I want to find out where this borderline seems to be.

So I am interested in what your OEM and Bentley's manual says about this. Could you please post this?
 
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