heavy oil in older BMWs Logic?

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I have always heard to use heavier oils such 15w40 or 20w50 oil (conventional or synthetic) in older BMW cars. What is the logic?

My BMW sure hated 0w40 oils like Mobil 1 (very noisy and bad UOA) yet seems to do very well with 20w50 valvoline high mileage blend. Much quieter and seems smoother.
 
The logic? The manual gives temp versus viscosity. At normal temperatures, they recommend heavy viscosities... Whether this is due to an anticipated autobahn drive, or some other aspect, I'm not sure anyone knows for certain...
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
oem expects the owner to heat the oil beyond +100c.


+1

In my older 96, running 85 MPH on the freeway will show anyone that even that little 318i was geared to run at higher speeds..... as a result, the RPMs are 3,000 plus the whole time, making that little motor work!

While it is only a 4 cylinder, it is a very different engine than what could almost be considered a toy engine in other makes.
I am not saying the engine is in my 96 is the most modern or fastest, but it was certainly designed to work hard.
 
Originally Posted By: Russell


My BMW sure hated 0w40 oils like Mobil 1 (very noisy and bad UOA) yet seems to do very well with 20w50 valvoline high mileage blend. Much quieter and seems smoother.


Russell:

I'm not sure if we've had this very conversation before or not (it feels like it).

Did your car not like 0W40, or did it not like *Mobil 1* 0W40?

I didn't realize it at the time until I moved away from Mobil 1 products, but my M52 sounded like a threshing machine on Mobil 1 0W40. Anything else (GTX 10W40, XD-3 15W40, Rotella 15W40, GC) is nice and quiet.

I personalize theorize that the problem isn't limited to just Mobil 1, but actually to anyone who uses the same XOM PAO base which is used to formulate Mobil 1 0W40. This means that there are probably lots of other "noisy" PAO based oils out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Russell


My BMW sure hated 0w40 oils like Mobil 1 (very noisy and bad UOA) yet seems to do very well with 20w50 valvoline high mileage blend. Much quieter and seems smoother.


Russell:

I'm not sure if we've had this very conversation before or not (it feels like it).

Did your car not like 0W40, or did it not like *Mobil 1* 0W40?

I didn't realize it at the time until I moved away from Mobil 1 products, but my M52 sounded like a threshing machine on Mobil 1 0W40. Anything else (GTX 10W40, XD-3 15W40, Rotella 15W40, GC) is nice and quiet.

I personalize theorize that the problem isn't limited to just Mobil 1, but actually to anyone who uses the same XOM PAO base which is used to formulate Mobil 1 0W40. This means that there are probably lots of other "noisy" PAO based oils out there.



Did not like Mobil 1 0w40. Never tried any otehr brand.
We could have had a similar discussion. I have played with many different oils over the years and asked a lot of questions, some of which may have seemed redundant. Time often helps us not remember details.
 
Last edited:
BMW and German cars in general have historically spec'd heavy oils.
Maybe they used skinny bearings, or were concerned about timing chains.
 
My 318i doesn't work (produce power) any harder than either one of my Accords at the same speeds.
The 318i turns faster to produce the same power, but power output is the measure of the amount of work an engine is doing, not revs.
Waste heat is also a function of how much fuel is consumed, which relates directly to the power output required for a given speed.
What I am trying to say is that if the '99 Accord needs 3000 revs in fifth to produce the power required to go 80 mph, and the 318i does the same at 4000 revs, both must be consuming similar amounts of fuel, and resolving similar amounts of heat into their oil and coolant.
The Accords are geared much taller than the 318i, or course, but must produce pretty close to the same power to produce the same kind of speeds.
Of course, the Accords can get to those speeds more quickly.
They also have a higher top speed than a 318i.
I should also note that our old Civics were geared pretty close to the 318i, and they didn't call for 20W-50s, either.
An alternative explaination is conservative recommendations.
While Honda recommended 5w30 years ago, BMW didn't.
Heck, Honda's BMW killer, the S2000, specs a mere 10w30.
I suspect that BMW's recommendations are very conservative, and are based upon the hope that no driver will be able to kill an engine just by using it hard.
Honda had more confidence in its engines, and therefore recommended a lighter oil.
Would I use anything less than a forty weight in my 318i?
No!
Would I use something heavier than a 5w30 in my Hondas?
Why not?
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I should also note that our old Civics were geared pretty close to the 318i, and they didn't call for 20W-50s, either.
An alternative explaination is conservative recommendations.
While Honda recommended 5w30 years ago, BMW didn't.
Heck, Honda's BMW killer, the S2000, specs a mere 10w30.
I suspect that BMW's recommendations are very conservative, and are based upon the hope that no driver will be able to kill an engine just by using it hard.
Honda had more confidence in its engines, and therefore recommended a lighter oil.
Would I use anything less than a forty weight in my 318i?
No!
Would I use something heavier than a 5w30 in my Hondas?
Why not?


I think the reason is more that before CAFE, BMW didn't BOTHER to spec a different (i.e. typically lighter) oil spec for North American versions of their cars and now they do.

European owner's manuals for BMWs still recommend heavier oils, as far as I've read.

What does the European version of the Accord spec in its owner's manual?
 
Having owned both Honda Accords and a whole bunch of 3-series BMWS, I'm pretty sure this is a very apples-and-oranges comparison. I love both cars, but I think it's fruitless to compare them to any extent beyond that they both have four wheels.
 
They are, of course.
This is our second BMW, and I really enjoy driving it, especially the rev-happy little engine.
It is also a pleasure to push a car through corners without grinding understeer. The BMW does have a nicely developed suspension, and ride is surpringly compliant.
Overall, the 318i Cab reminds me a lot of driving my old MGB, although it is better in every way.
The BMW was designed for driving fun.
The Hondas, OTOH, are utilitarian daily drivers that also offer some driving enjoyment, which many owners probably never discover.
The BMW is an enthusiast's car, while the Hondas are everyman's car that can be enjoyed by someone who buys a stick and understands that all the power lives in the second half of the rev range.
The comment about CAFE is good, as well, since Honda does spec much thicker oils in other countries than it does in ours.
The 318i has a fine and zingy engine, and the engine itself is an entirely different experience (more fun) than any 2.2 or 2.4 Honda.
Heck, the average V-8 SUV or pickup is faster than the 318i, but I wouldn't find much enjoyment in one.
 
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