Has enthusiasm for electric cars waned?

Ws6 said:
10% apr be like that
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@dogememe 11.9%

No, it's not. GM posting robust sales and profits. (dare I say record?)

Toyota just yesterday blew past all expectations and increased their year over year profit projections to a 50% increase. Sales are up in every part of their world wide market.

So we cant blame interest rates on poor EV sales, that defies all factual data. This on top of $7,500 tax credits! Not only that in 2024 that $7,500 will be able to be used at point of sale, possibly a downpayment. I would expect that to give a boast but needless to say without these credits, EVs would be much cheaper or not at all. The credit is going directly to the consumer and the EV maker is directly collecting the $7,500 in a higher price tag than it would be without it. Taxpayers are funding the whole EV thing, one day it will end.
 
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No, GM and Ford are finding out that building battery plants while releasing a multitude of new EVs is very, very, VERY hard. And pretty much about as expensive as launching three brand new models from the ground up.

GM's launching was supposed to cost $4.5 billion and they were likely going to have it be at least three times as much without the overruns they had been experiencing. The goal several quarters ago was to sell 10,000 vehicles with the Ultium battery. This quarter they built just over 4,400 units.

Ford frankly deserves their own thread on EV production. They are further ahead than GM but not by much. As for GM, they're finally understanding the magnitude and difficulty of launching what amounts to a brand new car company from the ground up. Like Tesla,. they will need to focus on a few select models and get them right before launching any new ones. The Silverado and Equinox are excellent choices and GM designing these new EVs from the ground up as EVs will make a huge difference.

I am not long on either company. I seriously thought about buying puts on GM stock about a month ago for a very long list of reasons and I sold off Ford about a year ago because of their quality problems (vehicle quality and production) and the mostly botched launch of the Lightning which is now coupled with the highest legacy costs in the industry. Ford is no longer a cost competitive company and they can't seem to build anything worth buying outside of the North American market.

Hope this helps.
 
Would I buy an F-150 Lightning? No; I might buy the ICE version.
Would I buy the Model 3 Highland? Highly likely. Any other sedan? Very highly unlikely.

Would I buy the Tesla Model Y or the Lexus RX450h? Dunno. Maybe neither.
Would I buy any EV besides a Tesla? Doubt it. Would I buy any ICE vehicle besides Honda/Toyota/Mazda? Doubt it.

There's more to a vehicle choice than the drive train. All good; it's your $$.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Would I buy an F-150 Lightning? No; I might buy the ICE version.
Would I buy the Model 3 Highland? Highly likely. Any other sedan? Very highly unlikely.

Would I buy the Tesla Model Y or the Lexus RX450h? Dunno. Maybe neither.
Would I buy any EV besides a Tesla? Doubt it. Would I buy any ICE vehicle besides Honda/Toyota/Mazda? Doubt it.

There's more to a vehicle choice than the drive train. All good; it's your $$.
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Have you seen data showing how many Tesla owners have an ICE as well ? Every one at work also has an LT or SUV that’s a gasser …
 
Haven’t we talked about this enough?

Thread 'ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness.375280/


Thread 'EV hype train rams into reality'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ev-hype-train-rams-into-reality.375200/


Thread 'GM and Honda calling it quits...'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gm-and-honda-calling-it-quits.375147/

Looks like we start a new “EV failing” thread about every three days…
 
alarmguy said:
Thank god you didnt buy puts on GM when you could have many, many, many times your money if you bought puts on Tesla a month ago!
Do you know Tesla was down 47% in the last 30 days? Obviously since you know about puts, that would have been your biggest profitable trade in your lifetime!
GM own a paltry 12% during that time and battling a UAW strike.

@JeffKeryk
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I think you are saying this is a buying opportunity? Personally, I am a long term investor; I am doing nothing. Plus, I have Schwab to manage things for me.

TSLA is down big over the last month; 20%. Ouch! YTD is another story, up 85%. This is a volatile stock.
Will the long delayed Cybertruck ever see the light of day? Will it really sell like the pre-orders? Will it be a flop long term?
What about the Model 2? IMO, this is the game changer. Just have to wait and see.

FYI, my portfolio over the past 3 months is down a big number. YTD looks better. All good @alarmguy
 
4WD said:
Have you seen data showing how many Tesla owners have an ICE as well ? Every one at work also has an LT or SUV that’s a gasser …
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Most of us, I believe. I have a 1 EV, 1 hybrid and a bunch of ICE. Not sure I will buy another pure ICE, at least new.
The better question, at least to me, is, "After owning an EV for a few years, what would you buy now?"
More accurately, "After owning a Tesla for a few years, what would you buy now?" I say this because Tesla has the lion's share of the EV installed base. Additionally, Tesla's customer satisfaction is off the charts as compared to other vehicles, so it is the one to be measured against.
 
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Vil_Riker said:
The whole of car sales are slowing down. There is fear that a lot of people will walk away from their car loans.
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Ooh.
I could use something that's a few years old and can tow my 4 wheeler long distances !
Maybe I can get a good cash deal on a midsize SUV and single axle enclosed trailer when the used vehicle market tanks.
 
alarmguy said:
@dogememe 11.9%

No, it's not. GM posting robust sales and profits. (dare I say record?)

Toyota just yesterday blew past all expectations and increased their year over year profit projections to a 50% increase. Sales are up in every part of their world wide market.

So we cant blame interest rates on poor EV sales, that defies all factual data. This on top of $7,500 tax credits! Not only that in 2024 that $7,500 will be able to be used at point of sale, possibly a downpayment. I would expect that to give a boast but needless to say without these credits, EVs would be much cheaper or not at all. The credit is going directly to the consumer and the EV maker is directly collecting the $7,500 in a higher price tag than it would be without it. Taxpayers are funding the whole EV thing, one day it will end.
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Interest rates do matter a lot. If a consumer opts for a lesser priced ICE because the EV it too expensive due to the higher rate environment that doesn't mean that EV's don't sell. It just means the current EV offering is too expensive especially when we're talking the domestics.

The real question is are EV buyers opting for similarly priced ICE instead? You're going to have to dig deeper into the sales figures to find that out.
 
Electric cars have saturated the early adopter and early mainstream markets at this point. The remaining markets either can’t tolerate the downsides enough to use an electric as their only car or can’t afford to buy a brand new second vehicle given current interest rates.

There is nothing to see here, really.
 
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