Group III Cleaning ability

[dsmith41]

Group IV and V synthetics are said to have great cleaning properties because of their PAO and ester content. Group III oils do not have the PAOs and esters but with a lot of calcium and other cleaning elements, is it safe to say that group III oils can clean just as well or even better than a group IV or V oil?

I am thinking like a Rotella or Pennzoil Platinum compared to a Redline or Amsoil in engine cleaning ability.

 

[Liquid_Turbo]

No one's really run any specific "cleaning" tests persay, but from valvetrain pictures, M1 has shown great results.

It's just my opinion, but I think a hydro-cracked group III syn cleans well.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Actually niether Grp III nor Grp IV are good cleaners. They are non polar base oils with little solvency capabilities. This leaves it to the dispercency and detergency additives to keep contaminates in suspension and keep the engine surfaces clean.

 

[d00df00d]

When people say Group xx has cleaning properties, they are referring to the base stock by itself. You can't always tell an oil's cleaning ability by its base stock alone because additives can play a big role, as Bryanccfshr said.

Group IV has the worst solvency on its own. Group III can have some, depending on how it's made, although never enough to be good at "cleaning" per se. It's more deposit control. Group V is the only one that can have actual cleaning properties on its own.

But again, it's easily possible for an oil with any base stock to have cleaning properties via the add pack.

 

[SuperDave456]

Ive always wondered if "synthetics", regardless of which kind you speak of, break down less and therefore have more detergents left at the end of an OCI than conventional oils.

It is this lack of the oil breaking down that leads us to think it "cleans" well, when what we see is it just not dirtying things up in the first place.

 

[d00df00d]

I'm sure that's part of it, too.

 

[vxcalais]

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Group IV and V synthetics are said to have great cleaning properties because of their PAO and ester content. Group III oils do not have the PAOs and esters but with a lot of calcium and other cleaning elements, is it safe to say that group III oils can clean just as well or even better than a group IV or V oil?

I am thinking like a Rotella or Pennzoil Platinum compared to a Redline or Amsoil in engine cleaning ability.


PAO is actually the worst. Ester and Group 1 and 2 best cleaners i believe. ESter is reinforced with PAO and lower grades are not always.

 

[vxcalais]

Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Ive always wondered if "synthetics", regardless of which kind you speak of, break down less and therefore have more detergents left at the end of an OCI than conventional oils.

It is this lack of the oil breaking down that leads us to think it "cleans" well, when what we see is it just not dirtying things up in the first place.


This seems spot on. Its a pitty LPG gas is not common in the U.S. Where a oil will darken on petrol in 2-3000k's on lpg it stays clean till 5000k's (using the dipstick guage ). It is known for running and keeping engines clean. But it has a dirty hidden secret, the acids and water is produces. It can be deceptive. With good TBN's in the oil some engines may never get dirty, even sludgers.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
When people say Group xx has cleaning properties, they are referring to the base stock by itself. You can't always tell an oil's cleaning ability by its base stock alone because additives can play a big role, as Bryanccfshr said.

Group IV has the worst solvency on its own. Group III can have some, depending on how it's made, although never enough to be good at "cleaning" per se. It's more deposit control. Group V is the only one that can have actual cleaning properties on its own.

But again, it's easily possible for an oil with any base stock to have cleaning properties via the add pack.


Well stated.

Tom NJ

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: vxcalais
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Ive always wondered if "synthetics", regardless of which kind you speak of, break down less and therefore have more detergents left at the end of an OCI than conventional oils.

It is this lack of the oil breaking down that leads us to think it "cleans" well, when what we see is it just not dirtying things up in the first place.


This seems spot on. Its a pitty LPG gas is not common in the U.S. Where a oil will darken on petrol in 2-3000k's on lpg it stays clean till 5000k's (using the dipstick guage ). It is known for running and keeping engines clean. But it has a dirty hidden secret, the acids and water is produces. It can be deceptive. With good TBN's in the oil some engines may never get dirty, even sludgers.


LPG is not big over here, but in terms of therm-rated gasses, CNG dominates. For all intents and purposes, the running characteristics are just like LPG. I really want to convert to common-rail CNG injection!

 

[vxcalais]

Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Ive always wondered if "synthetics", regardless of which kind you speak of, break down less and therefore have more detergents left at the end of an OCI than conventional oils.

It is this lack of the oil breaking down that leads us to think it "cleans" well, when what we see is it just not dirtying things up in the first place.


This seems spot on. Its a pitty LPG gas is not common in the U.S. Where a oil will darken on petrol in 2-3000k's on lpg it stays clean till 5000k's (using the dipstick guage ). It is known for running and keeping engines clean. But it has a dirty hidden secret, the acids and water is produces. It can be deceptive. With good TBN's in the oil some engines may never get dirty, even sludgers.


LPG is not big over here, but in terms of therm-rated gasses, CNG dominates. For all intents and purposes, the running characteristics are just like LPG. I really want to convert to common-rail CNG injection!


For our cars its as simple as changing a valve to run CNG, only thing is, no where to fill it up by. Our neighbors in New Zealand are running CNG. Cheaper as well.