GrandAm 3.4- TriSyn/SS/Delvac 1

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Al

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Latest on the Delvac 1- Finally
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2000 GrandAm 3.4
Miles on Unit: 19,765..25,515..33358
Miles on Oil :6,165...5750...7,843
Oil:.:TriSyn(10W-30)...SS(10W-30)..Delvac 1(5W-40)
Filter........K&N.....K&N...K&N
Date.........5/5/02...10/20/02..5/22/03

Fe.....41...31...57
Cr.....3....1....0
Al.....9....7....8
Pb.....9....9....5
Cu.....97...83...61

Moly...7....98...13
Phos...781..1104..1380
Zn.....974..1119..1310
Mg.....1890..251..537
Ca.....863...3059..2420

Si....59...51...24
Anti-Frz.--..--...0
Fuel.....1%...1.3%..N
H2O......0....0.....0


Vis....10.8...10.2...14.8
TBN....6.06...3.65...--
Sulfur...--....--......6%
Oxidation.--...--......19%
Nitration.--...--......30%

First two analysis by Analysts, Inc Last one by Shaeffers

At first I was disappointed but really the only thing that has not improved was the iron and this winter was a bear. The Car makes trips of 17 miles one way every day (weeekdays). I don't know if my daughter in law lets the vehicle idle or not. So all in all I'm happy with the results. Bearing wear is down nicely even though the interval with the Delvac was longer than the other two intervals.

Enjoy
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Al, did you get a TBN for the Delvac 1? It stayed in grade nicely. Iron is high but I don't know if this is common with this engine. Based on the other two analysis, I would think so. And YES this winter was crazy!
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[ June 02, 2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by mormit:
Si, Si, Si, Silicon!

Check your air filter and intake carefully. I think you have a leak somewhere.
Click to expand...
Don't really think so. But I did check things over pretty carefully-thanks. This is common in these engines. Silicon is coming down nicely. Also I think the Al is probably too low for that. Wish Shaeffers gave a TBN. Based on the Oxidation and staying in grade-I'ts probably O.K. The more I look at some of these analysis-if the stuff stays in grade and the oil doesn't appear to be shot-that's about as good as you are gonna do.

[ June 02, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Al ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by mormit:
Si, Si, Si, Silicon!

Check your air filter and intake carefully. I think you have a leak somewhere.
Click to expand...
If he did have a leak, he solved most of it with this latest interval, there is much less silicon per 1000 miles than the last two used oil analysis.

Are you still running Delvac 1 now in this car Al? When will the next change be? It would be interesting to see a full interval with no cold weather in it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:

quote:
Originally posted by mormit:
Si, Si, Si, Silicon!

Check your air filter and intake carefully. I think you have a leak somewhere.
Click to expand...
If he did have a leak, he solved most of it with this latest interval, there is much less silicon per 1000 miles than the last two used oil analysis.

Are you still running Delvac 1 now in this car Al? When will the next change be? It would be interesting to see a full interval with no cold weather in it.
Click to expand...
I have the Delvac 1 in again. I plan on changing it at about the same interval (8K miles). I really expect the iron to go back down with the Summer driving. I did talk to my son and he said his wife does not idle the car excessively before going to work. Not really sure what to use next. Maybe I will try the 10w30 Shaeffer's Supreme.
 
Thanks, guys false alarm I guess. I know Mobil oils start out near zero so any analysis with double digit Si makes me jump up and take notice.

Does this engine use a unique gasket or sealent material than others? I thought Si typically dropped by 10,000mi.
dunno.gif
 
Al,

Nice reduction in bearing wear ...I think running the mid 40wt Delvac 1, vs the low 30wt Mobil 1 helps in this respect. There may be something to this ACEA A3/B4 limit of 3.5 Cp in terms of high temp/high shear viscosity. Viscosity in this case is essentially unchanged, so I think the oil is probably in decent shape. I'd push it out to 10,000 miles next time, with a filter change and topoff @ 5000 miles.

Since this is a DOHC engine, I'd expect to see more iron from the camshaft lobes and valve lifters, so I suspect this rate of iron wear is normal. It is certainly very consistent, which is something I like to see ....It also seems the heavier oil is reducing the characteristic copper wear from this GM engine. Perhaps owners of the LS-1 engines would be better serviced by running a oil that meets the ACEA A3/B4 specs as well?

You'll note that Delvac 1 uses significantly more ZDDP than the API licensed Mobil 1, which is one reason I like this type of formulation. Redline and Amsoil also take this approach to formulation chemistry ...

TooSlick
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Since this is a DOHC engine, ...
Click to expand...
The 3.4 is a pushrod V6, which I didn't know was even available in the Grand Am. The 3.1 version is, however. The 2.4 liter 4 cyl is DOHC.
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:

Since this is a DOHC engine, I'd expect to see more iron from the camshaft lobes and valve lifters, so I suspect this rate of iron wear is normal. It is certainly very consistent, which is something I like to see ....It also seems the heavier oil is reducing the characteristic copper wear from this GM engine. Perhaps owners of the LS-1 engines would be better serviced by running a oil that meets the ACEA A3/B4 specs as well?


Click to expand...
I've been trying to convince my LS1 friends to use an oil closer to the 12-14cst range, something that would meet A3 specs. The 0w30 Castrol Formula SLX would work well in this engine I believe, or Mobil 1 0w40 or any of the Amsoil 30wts for that matter. I just think Mobil 1 5w30/10w30 is too thin for the LS1, and it won't show it's best engine wear with a thinner oil like that.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:
I've been trying to convince my LS1 friends to use an oil closer to the 12-14cst range, something that would meet A3 specs. The 0w30 Castrol Formula SLX would work well in this engine I believe, or Mobil 1 0w40 or any of the Amsoil 30wts for that matter. I just think Mobil 1 5w30/10w30 is too thin for the LS1, and it won't show it's best engine wear with a thinner oil like that.
Click to expand...
When 3MP goes to Amsoil after the Mobil 1, we'll be able to see if your theory is correct.
 
Patman,

I'd agree with that assessment ...I've seen some very low wear rates with Amsoil in the LS-1 engine, particularly in the Corvette applications. The Redline 5w30/10w-30 and the ACEA A3 rated, 0w30 Syntec should also work well here, as should Mobil 1, 0w-40.

I do think the rate of copper wear in the LS-1 diminishes over time, which will tend to favor the 5w30 Amsoil formulation that 3MP is doing next. It would probably be more fair to track the rate of Fe wear for comparison purposes. I am pretty confident that oil consumption will be significantly reduced over the 2000-3000 miles a quart its using with Mobil 1.

TooSlick
 
quote:
When 3MP goes to Amsoil after the Mobil 1, we'll be able to see if your theory is correct.
Click to expand...
I'm looking forward to it. You would think Amsoil and Redline being more expensive non-api oils would show there superiority, but we have yet to see it. Maybe this study will show that. Right now, my pick is M1.
wink.gif


[ June 03, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Al,

Nice reduction in bearing wear ...I think running the mid 40wt Delvac 1, vs the low 30wt Mobil 1 helps in this respect. TooSlick
Click to expand...
TooSlick: I'd be more interested in your opinion of the Silicon/Iron. Naturally I am concerned that the Silicon in the last case is more than gasket wear and may be affecting the Iron. But I reasoned that silicon and aluminum are generally both high due to th presence of the Al in the dirt/sand etc. What are you seeing in these 3.1/3.4 GM engines- or anyone else??

Thanks.
 
Al,

The rate of Fe wear is very consistent in these three tests and doesn't seem to correlate to silicon levels. I think it's just characteristic of this engine series by GM ....

TS
 
The FE level SEEMS to correlate to the miles driven.

quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Al,

The rate of Fe wear is very consistent in these three tests and doesn't seem to correlate to silicon levels. I think it's just characteristic of this engine series by GM ....

TS
Click to expand...
 
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Since this is a DOHC engine, ...
Click to expand...
The 3.4 is a pushrod V6, which I didn't know was even available in the Grand Am. The 3.1 version is, however.
Click to expand...
I thought both of them were pushrod V6 engines. I know that the 3.1 sounds nothing like a DOHC...
 
quote:
Originally posted by mormit:
Does this engine use a unique gasket or sealent material than others? I thought Si typically dropped by 10,000mi.
dunno.gif

Click to expand...
My experience is that it takes 20,000-30,000 miles for the silicon to level out, at least on three new engines for me over the past several years
 
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