Gotta Love BMW

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: dkryan

After years of buying and maintaining cars, my philosophy on spending lots of $$$ for a nameplate is: it's primary purpose is transportation and it depreciates as the months and miles roll by.

I was interested in BMWs back when people thought the letters stood for British Motor Works. I've bought a couple new, but the rest were used. I'm never selling the ti, and we plan to keep the X3 another 5-10 years. Both are owned free and clear, so depreciation isn't really an issue for me.

Originally Posted By: dkryan

That doesn't mean I subscribe to the Yugo-level of car buying, but I also won't drop $50K on a ride just because I have the wherewithal to do so.

I bought my Club Sport new in 1995 and I paid just $24,150. The X3 was a CPO car purchased in 2005, and it cost $29,600. Those aren't bargain-basement prices but they aren't especially extravagant either.

Originally Posted By: dkryan

As MCompact said: "different strokes." But regardless of your "stroke," it's transportation and it depreciates.

The thing is, I enjoy driving, and I'll pick an involving and entertaining car over an anodyne appliance every time. Paying a bit extra so that I smile every time I sit behind the wheel -or take it to the track- is more than worth it. And that goes for my '02, Mazdaspeed, and Wrangler as well.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

... Read my above post, I agree that BMW should fix the problem without hassle, but you have to be realistic about any new technology. It will have some early teething problems. Just ask those early plasma TV buyers that paid through the nose for the privilege to be the first ones to own one.

Sir, I have read your posts. And I think I am being realistic. This is embedded cell phone technology that GM has had down pat for nearly a decade now. Especially in light of the beatings that GM has taken for virtually everything else BUT On-Star, and how well On-Star has worked, it would seem pretty clear that this technology is neither new, nor troubled. It may also be that something is horribly wrong with this particular car. That happens with all car makers, GM, Toyota, BMW, you name it. If that's the case, the issue is not what you describe, but rather one of BMW and it's distribution chain failing to properly check out the product before it ends up in a customer's hands. I do agree that, generally, the more "things" you put in a car, the more chance for problems to happen. All this said, though, the maker is responsible in the end.

 

[Kestas]

On a general note, I own a 95 mercedes and I can commiserate with all the electrical problems an owner has to put up with on a german car. If you look at the ratings, german cars have horrible reliability, yet consumer satisfaction is high. Go figure. I can only imagine that they query original owners where cars are in warranty. The others in the secondary market can take a hike for all they care. That's why the value of these cars drops like a rock with time.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Sir, I have read your posts. And I think I am being realistic. This is embedded cell phone technology that GM has had down pat for nearly a decade now. Especially in light of the beatings that GM has taken for virtually everything else BUT On-Star, and how well On-Star has worked, it would seem pretty clear that this technology is neither new, nor troubled.

Ironically, BMW buys or has bought a GM automatic transmission for one of their RWD cars. Am thinking they should have licensed the Onstar doodadery as well. I simply cannot, however, believe BMW doesn't have an intermediate service filter the car's ramblings before calling the cops. Onstar does it. Burglar alarm companies do it. They get to extract that monthly fee for the peace of mind.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: StevieC

If I were rich I would probably still drive a basic run of the mill car like a Hyundai or a Honda Accord. I just don't get the premium overpriced vehicles like BMW.

Not sure if physicians are really rich. However the 6 I know in my neighborhood all drive Accord's in various forms from 1994-present. Hyundai I still picture the junk box(1986) back in college my room mate drove I think with one working door. The front passenger. I have even ridden in the V8 Genesis but still would never buy a Hyundai.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

so what luxury manufacturers have to do to make their customers "feel" like their money is well spent? Squeeze in as many electronic gadgets as they possibly can, even if it means putting stuff in that was not properly tested. Money no longer goes to better engineering, it is spent on coming up with new features and toys and then marketing them.

I disagree, the Jaguar I bought for my wife SIX years ago is constructed from aluminum, is bonded together rather than welded making for a significantly more rigid body structure that is immediately apparent when driving the car, has an electronic suspension that dynamically adjusts on the fly, wool carpeting, wood, quality leather, blah, auto everything all of which has worked flawlessly. Superior engineering and materials are still very much the norm for most luxury automakers; BMW just isn't one of them.

 

[fdcg27]

Did this really happen, or is this merely the product of the fevered imagination of some unemployed white collar type from some part of the industry? This is what I don't like about posts that are based upon some third-party anecdote. If the fellow alledging the problem had posted here himself, his post could then be completely vetted and questioned by everyone here. As it is, the point of departure for this thread involves the owner of a vehicle we can't even address with any questions. We are merely given a story, and some of us swallow it whole. At the least, I have to question anyone who would take an already very well equipped car, and then add 20% to its price in options, as well as claiming actually to have paid list price. BMW bashing by way of an unverifiable source.

 

[ffhdriver]

OnStar is not without its problems. Never could get it to connect on mt '96 Buick so I turned it off and removed the antenna. Checking a car carefully before delivery doesn't guaranty that a light bulb won't burn out an hour later. Saying it's possible to know it needed changing and was going to fail is silly.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: ffhdriver

OnStar is not without its problems. Never could get it to connect on mt '96 Buick so I turned it off and removed the antenna. Checking a car carefully before delivery doesn't guaranty that a light bulb won't burn out an hour later. Saying it's possible to know it needed changing and was going to fail is silly.

No, what's really silly is finding an important, strongly advertised feature that doesn't work, and instead of having the mfr fix it as they should, just disconnecting it and giving up. That's waaaay beyond silly... Beyond this silliness, you miss the point. Even if the dealer checked the system, and it worked (which I highly doubt), and then it mysteriously suddenly failed just after the customer took the car, BMW's behavior is still inexcusable, especially when regarding a car this expensive. Having just taken $60k of a customer's money, and delivered a car that repetitively, makes uncommanded calls to 911, BMW should be falling all over itself to get the car back into its hands, and to provide the customer with equivalent, substitute transportation. Now wait, let me make sure I got this straight -- you're OK with a new car having a burned out light one hour into your ownership of the car??????

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Did this really happen, ... BMW bashing by way of an unverifiable source.

Good point. Some anti-legend verification would be nice... That said, it is very easy to jack the price of a car in this league by that much with pricey, profit-oriented option packages.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: ffhdriver

OnStar is not without its problems. Never could get it to connect on mt '96 Buick so I turned it off and removed the antenna. Checking a car carefully before delivery doesn't guaranty that a light bulb won't burn out an hour later. Saying it's possible to know it needed changing and was going to fail is silly.

I have the full OnStar package - nav, cell, security, diagnostics, etc., enabled on the three Pontiacs, and it works flawlessly. OnStar is one of the best things Govt Motors has going for it. A 96 Buick has analog equipment, the cell networks have been digital for a long time now. It would need to have a new digital comm package installed to work on today's cellular networks.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

BMW bashing by way of an unverifiable source.

Yeah, could be baloney. I can tell you that the Jaguar dealer that I have bought my cars from would come and pick that car up and not bring it back until it was right. For that matter, so would the Pontiac dealer. Can't imagine BMW being that much different - unless they're just overworked from all the clunkers they've put out .

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

These days it’s a totally different story, people want their comforts and toys. People want hands free Bluetooth, mp3s, iPod integration, seat warmers etc. etc. Most econoboxes come with these features these days, so what luxury manufacturers have to do to make their customers "feel" like their money is well spent? Squeeze in as many electronic gadgets as they possibly can, even if it means putting stuff in that was not properly tested. Money no longer goes to better engineering, it is spent on coming up with new features and toys and then marketing them.

The options you are attributing as common for econoboxes were probably first introduced in the luxury segment, and the current luxury options will surely make their way there in time, where you will take them for granted too. Don't knock those who volunteer to beta test for you...

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: StevieC

If I were rich I would probably still drive a basic run of the mill car like a Hyundai or a Honda Accord. I just don't get the premium overpriced vehicles like BMW.

I'm thinking you mean "better off" rather than rich. I think most definitions of Rich would mean that buying a BMW wouldn't even be financially noticeable.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Did this really happen, or is this merely the product of the fevered imagination of some unemployed white collar type from some part of the industry? This is what I don't like about posts that are based upon some third-party anecdote. If the fellow alledging the problem had posted here himself, his post could then be completely vetted and questioned by everyone here. As it is, the point of departure for this thread involves the owner of a vehicle we can't even address with any questions. We are merely given a story, and some of us swallow it whole. At the least, I have to question anyone who would take an already very well equipped car, and then add 20% to its price in options, as well as claiming actually to have paid list price. BMW bashing by way of an unverifiable source.

Go back and click on the link provided. It will take you to Consumers Reports blog site where you can click to read the bio of the post's author. 30 seconds of research would have addressed your issues.

 

[fdcg27]

I did click on the link. Really doesn't tell you anything particularly useful or verifiable. Beyond that, I would think that anyone capable of swinging a 60K stick at a car would have been more astute in negotiating its purchase, and would have been more forceful in dealing with a mere car dealer. Prosperous people are not normally victims. They are typically neither stupid nor weak, nor are they passive.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I did click on the link. Really doesn't tell you anything particularly useful or verifiable. Beyond that, I would think that anyone capable of swinging a 60K stick at a car would have been more astute in negotiating its purchase, and would have been more forceful in dealing with a mere car dealer. Prosperous people are not normally victims. They are typically neither stupid nor weak, nor are they passive.

You're not paying attention. Did you actually READ the info at the link? Let me break it down for you since you are clearly struggling: 1. The writer of the comments is an employee of Consumer Reports. He is one of their auto test engineers. 2. The writer does NOT own the car, nor did he pay for it. The car is owned by Consumers Reports and is part of a test fleet of vehicles. 3. It is not a story from some unknown 3rd party. It is an experience related directly by the person who experienced it. No vetting out is needed. If you want details, contact the writer directly by clicking on the link I told you to click on. 4. Your commentary about the writer's intelligence is misplaced. All he did was drive the car and post comments about a problem he experienced. You are conjuring up everything else.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

These days it’s a totally different story, people want their comforts and toys. People want hands free Bluetooth, mp3s, iPod integration, seat warmers etc. etc. Most econoboxes come with these features these days, so what luxury manufacturers have to do to make their customers "feel" like their money is well spent? Squeeze in as many electronic gadgets as they possibly can, even if it means putting stuff in that was not properly tested. Money no longer goes to better engineering, it is spent on coming up with new features and toys and then marketing them.

The options you are attributing as common for econoboxes were probably first introduced in the luxury segment, and the current luxury options will surely make their way there in time, where you will take them for granted too. Don't knock those who volunteer to beta test for you...

I'm not knocking anybody, I'm just trying to point out to the "shocked" ones that a 60k car is exactly that: "a beta tester" and it should not be a surprise to anyone that some of the gadgets will not work as advertised or break overtime. It seems some here think that if a 15k Corolla can go 300k miles without electrical issues, then a 60k car should do the same, but reality is totally different.

 

[MCompact]

I will point out that my 2007 Mazdaspeed required three major warranty repairs(LF strut, turbo, variable valve timing actuator) before it hit 45K. I actually double-checked to make sure it wasn't built in Flat Rock MI...

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

... I'm not knocking anybody, I'm just trying to point out to the "shocked" ones that a 60k car is exactly that: "a beta tester" and it should not be a surprise to anyone that some of the gadgets will not work as advertised or break overtime. It seems some here think that if a 15k Corolla can go 300k miles without electrical issues, then a 60k car should do the same, but reality is totally different.

Nobody here is shocked, except perhaps by the logic of what you're saying. A $60k is exactly that -- a $60k car, not a beta tester. You're taking one bizarre, unacceptable episode, and making grand, sweeping generalizations that are way beyond unjustified. I have at least a dozen friends and colleagues who drive cars in this class, BMWs, Lexi, a Jag or two, and some others. Most of them are very happy with their expensive toys. If they were indeed "beta testers" and as unreliable as you suggest, then they all should be seeing similar issues. Yet they're not. While it is true that the more gadgets you add, the greater the probability of a malfunction, you have taken a vast leap to a conclusion that is simply not justified, even remotely, by the behavior of vehicles which is easily observable by anyone who cares to look.