You should always change the filter when you do a tranny service even if you flush it because your not going to get the existing contaminants that are in the filter no matter how much you flush and as the tranny wears you will get a build up of material in the filter which will eventually plug it up. When I switched my tranny to syn the first thing they did was drop the pan and change the filter, then they flushed out the remainder of the fluid and replaced it with the synthetic.
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Got a Transmission Flush (question)
- Thread starter Burbanite
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Kestas
Staff member
I'm kinda lukewarm on changing transmission filters. Some of them are nothing more than metal screens to filter the big stuff. After the first change, where the break-in debris is cleaned out, the transmission should generate less debris. After the first change, I think it's more important to clean out the silt in the pan and fuzz on the magnet than change out the filter.
So check which kind of filter your transmission has and use an appropriate maintenance schedule for it.
If this is the first maintenance for the transmission, I would be thorough and give it the works.
So check which kind of filter your transmission has and use an appropriate maintenance schedule for it.
If this is the first maintenance for the transmission, I would be thorough and give it the works.
Well, I had to go back today because they over-filled the dam trans. Anyway, I asked them again about their theory on not dropping the pan and replacing the filter. They said if there are no leaks, it's not needed. Their machinge will pump out all the contaminents and replace with all fresh trans fluid. They said the machine monitors the flow through the filter and can tell if there are any clogs...
Anyone else out there heard of this and/or used a quicky lube joint to flush your trans with no pan drop and filter replacement?
Anyone else out there heard of this and/or used a quicky lube joint to flush your trans with no pan drop and filter replacement?
Kestas
Staff member
Somebody posted on another site that they had just such a problem. Unless you use a transmission shop and pay $120, it's hard to find somebody to do both.
I imagine the quicky-lube corporate execs saw too many problems* with doing both, and saw good profit by sticking with the simple fluid exchange they've perfected, and something that the average quicky-lube drone can master. Exchanging the fluid does not get all the contaminants, just the ones suspended in the fluid. On the plus side, I think changing the fluid has first priority over dealing with the contaminant debris, which hopefully stays on the magnet or on the bottom of the pan.
I've never heard of neglected transmissions getting so bad that the filter is clogged. These filters have a relatively high capacity for what they are capturing.
* The problems could be stocking all the necessary filters and gaskets, stripped bolt holes, parts washer to clean the pan, bent pan flanges, leaks after service, and the price shock to present this service to the average customer. At $120 a pop, servicing every 30K could result in the owner spending $500 or more over the life of the car for this maintenance, making the owner wonder if this service will pay off.
I imagine the quicky-lube corporate execs saw too many problems* with doing both, and saw good profit by sticking with the simple fluid exchange they've perfected, and something that the average quicky-lube drone can master. Exchanging the fluid does not get all the contaminants, just the ones suspended in the fluid. On the plus side, I think changing the fluid has first priority over dealing with the contaminant debris, which hopefully stays on the magnet or on the bottom of the pan.
I've never heard of neglected transmissions getting so bad that the filter is clogged. These filters have a relatively high capacity for what they are capturing.
* The problems could be stocking all the necessary filters and gaskets, stripped bolt holes, parts washer to clean the pan, bent pan flanges, leaks after service, and the price shock to present this service to the average customer. At $120 a pop, servicing every 30K could result in the owner spending $500 or more over the life of the car for this maintenance, making the owner wonder if this service will pay off.
So in all actuallity, I should have no problems with letting the quick lube joint flush my system, while not dropping the pan, replacing my filter?
I can only assume I shouldn't have any problems considering the liability these shops would be under to be able to advise people not to worry about replacing the filter... ??? comments?
I am really concerned about this.
I can only assume I shouldn't have any problems considering the liability these shops would be under to be able to advise people not to worry about replacing the filter... ??? comments?
I am really concerned about this.
Kestas
Staff member
I (or we) may be confusing you. Nobody can say whether you will be trouble-free by only exchanging the fluid and never dropping the pan or changing the filter. Don't go by the liability factor - should your transmission go kaput, you'd never be able to prove that their recommendations were faulty.
I don't think it's a good idea to never open the pan. I'm just saying it may not be necessary to change the filter every 30K. It really depends on how anal you want to be about transmission maintenance.
Since you're not a DIYer, and it's difficult (plus expensive) to find a shop that will do a complete job (exchange fluid, change filter, and clean pan & magnet), certain shortcuts may be in order.
My recommendation would be to exchange the fluid every 30K, change the filter the first 30K, then change filter every 60K after that.
I don't think it's a good idea to never open the pan. I'm just saying it may not be necessary to change the filter every 30K. It really depends on how anal you want to be about transmission maintenance.
Since you're not a DIYer, and it's difficult (plus expensive) to find a shop that will do a complete job (exchange fluid, change filter, and clean pan & magnet), certain shortcuts may be in order.
My recommendation would be to exchange the fluid every 30K, change the filter the first 30K, then change filter every 60K after that.
I took my truck to Jiffy Lube and they flushed my transmission. I asked the guy,don't you drop the pan and change the filter? He replied by explaining to me that it is not neccessary to drop the pan and replace filter anymore. When they flush the system, they get everything out, and their machine can monitor if everything is flowing freely past the filter. As I was waiting for my truck, another guy who was getting his oil changed told me he had over 200k on his truck, never once did he have the trans pan pulled, not once. Only trans flushes.
Is this method safe? And can you really get away with never changing the trans filter?
Is this method safe? And can you really get away with never changing the trans filter?
I would change the filter and determine how much material it trapped and based on results,determine how often to repeat this procedure-every tranny/driving style may differ on when or if it ever needs to be repeated.flushing the tranny does not "clean" the filter!~
Theres no problem with a fluid exchange without changing the filter.
If equipped with a filter and/or pan magnets, they should be inspected/cleaned at least every 100k or so miles.
What year/make/model/tranny/mileage/maintenance history???????
If equipped with a filter and/or pan magnets, they should be inspected/cleaned at least every 100k or so miles.
What year/make/model/tranny/mileage/maintenance history???????
i don't now about you.
but i wouldn't feel comfortable having all new fluid and old filter....just doesn't seem right.
i used to drop the pan on my Explorer every 15,000 to 20,000 miles....then i got an Auxilary spin on filter and i just change that every 5,000 miles, i plan on dropping the pan sometime and then flushing out the fluid and putting new stuff in.
but i wouldn't feel comfortable having all new fluid and old filter....just doesn't seem right.
i used to drop the pan on my Explorer every 15,000 to 20,000 miles....then i got an Auxilary spin on filter and i just change that every 5,000 miles, i plan on dropping the pan sometime and then flushing out the fluid and putting new stuff in.
I bought an 01 Pontiac Montana brand new, had the trans flushed every 30k miles like clockwork, the pan was never dropped. At 140k, the trans was making noises and shifting harshly. Dropped the pan to find 1/4" of sludge and metallic debris.
IMO flushes are not good enough, the pan needs to be cleaned and the filter changed. Adding external filtration and additional cooling will also go a long ways to extending component life.
After the incident described above I refilled the trans with Amsoil ATF and added a bypass filter. 120k later(on the same fill of ATF and filter) I dropped the pan again and it was absolutely spotless inside. Currently the van has 310,000 miles on the original engine and trans.
IMO flushes are not good enough, the pan needs to be cleaned and the filter changed. Adding external filtration and additional cooling will also go a long ways to extending component life.
After the incident described above I refilled the trans with Amsoil ATF and added a bypass filter. 120k later(on the same fill of ATF and filter) I dropped the pan again and it was absolutely spotless inside. Currently the van has 310,000 miles on the original engine and trans.
Is the bypass filter really necessary? And how could you plumb that in without significantly lowering the cooler circuit flow rate? I thought that in addition to ultrafine filtration, one of the main things that a bypass filter does is to take out any condensation/ moisture from fluid. I would not think that this is a real problem in normal transmission operating environment. If you really wanted to add filtration to the cooler circuit, wouldn't a standard oil filter mount in the circuit be enough? Then you would have your choice of any number of quailty oil filters to fit. My first choice would be the new EaO filters, changed out every 50k to 100k miles.
I would think a service with a filter change is in order every 25,000 miles. If you look at the pan of the transmission when you do the change it most alway's has friction material that needs to be cleaned out. If you choose to do the flush..at least every other time do the full service. Jiffy lube and others love this flushing machine...it's easy and there techs don't have to drop a pan. It's not funny how their full proof machine over filled your transmission. I would find a tech you trust and stay with him and schedule your flushes with him and find a trusted shop to do the full service with filter change. Bottom line, you need to change the filter and clean the pan every so often.
Well, the only reason I have my truck serviced is that I don't own it, it's a company vehicle. I change my own fluids on my own cars. But I watched the tech add more trans fluid after he had unhooked the machine. I ALWAYS check my fluid levels after getting my truck out of a Jiffy Lube joint. They overfilled my trans by 1.5 qts. Unreal!!! You can't trust anyone but yourself when it comes to your vehicles.
Burbanite
Thread starter
Good on you grbr95. Replacing the Filter at each change is a good investment, not to mention "peace of mind".
bmwtechguy,
My system draws ATF out of the cooling circuit via a brass "T" located after the stock cooler, so cooling isn't affected. From the "T" the ATF flows through the filter and then back to the pan. I restrict the flow to 0.5 quarts/min to minimize the pressure drop in the cooling circuit. Yes, there is still some pressure drop but a full-flow filter is no better since it adds restriction to the circuit.
I think a bypass is the best of both worlds, the internal filter is still there incase anything big comes through while the bypass continuously cleans the oil down to less than 1 micron. I change the elements every 125k miles so 3 elements last the lifetime of the car.
I used to be happy to get 125k out of a transmission in one of my cabs, now they last the life of the car(300k+)
My system draws ATF out of the cooling circuit via a brass "T" located after the stock cooler, so cooling isn't affected. From the "T" the ATF flows through the filter and then back to the pan. I restrict the flow to 0.5 quarts/min to minimize the pressure drop in the cooling circuit. Yes, there is still some pressure drop but a full-flow filter is no better since it adds restriction to the circuit.
I think a bypass is the best of both worlds, the internal filter is still there incase anything big comes through while the bypass continuously cleans the oil down to less than 1 micron. I change the elements every 125k miles so 3 elements last the lifetime of the car.
I used to be happy to get 125k out of a transmission in one of my cabs, now they last the life of the car(300k+)
Kestas
Staff member
The reason I'm lukewarm on changing the filter every time is that some filters are nothing but metal screens. Heck, if you wash them, they can be reused! Plus, some pan drops I made after 30K show the fiber filter rather clean with little discoloration.
If it makes you FEEL better, go ahead and change it every time. I prefer to take it on a case-by-case basis. I see no need to waste our money or natural resources by unnecessarily changing filters, nor to make blanket statements that all filters must be changed every 30K.
If it makes you FEEL better, go ahead and change it every time. I prefer to take it on a case-by-case basis. I see no need to waste our money or natural resources by unnecessarily changing filters, nor to make blanket statements that all filters must be changed every 30K.
I'm with Kestas on this one...
I know it's not the same transmission as in the Ranger, but the factory service manual for the 4R70W in my car states:
"Do not remove the fluid filter. It is not necessary to change the fluid filter during a normal maintenance fluid change."
Further on it says:
"If the transmission is being serviced for a contamination-related failure, use a new filter and seal. The filter may be reused if no excessive contamination is present."
Personally, I think it's a good idea to change the filter at the first fluid change, at least.
I know it's not the same transmission as in the Ranger, but the factory service manual for the 4R70W in my car states:
"Do not remove the fluid filter. It is not necessary to change the fluid filter during a normal maintenance fluid change."
Further on it says:
"If the transmission is being serviced for a contamination-related failure, use a new filter and seal. The filter may be reused if no excessive contamination is present."
Personally, I think it's a good idea to change the filter at the first fluid change, at least.
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