Good read about MB

[badnews]

I once was asked a question by a poster here if I knew more than MBenz engineers .
Maybe I do --

cut and paste from a article


Owners of Mercedes-Benz automobiles in the U.S. were recently awarded a $32-million settlement because they were not informed they should use synthetic motor oil. Mercedes utilized a system designed to help owners lower maintenance costs and reduce the adverse environmental impact of used motor oil. The system extends drain intervals to when the oil actually needs to be changed, rather than at a set predetermined intervals. They start with 10,000-mile drains and push them up to 20,000 miles, using synthetic motor oils!

The problem occured because these U.S. owners were told to use conventional motor oils, which could not stand up to those extended intervals. According to the suit, this promoted more engine wear than if they had been using the originally specified synthetic oil. Now if that isn't a testimonial as to the superior performance of synthetic motor oils, I don't know what is. Thirty-two million dollars is a tidy sum to pay for increasing engine wear, but the company did not dispute the fact that the drain intervals determined by their system were too long for conventional oils.




This article goes a long way to explain all the "caution" labels on the vehicle as to use oil spec oil only .

They are gun shy , also explains the snub by them on approving easy to get USA oils .

Politics in oil , what is next

 

[BobFout]

Kinda similar to what happened to VW/Audi about 10 years ago. People misinterpreted the owners manual and thought they could use a conventional oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: badnews
I once was asked a question by a poster here if I knew more than MBenz engineers .
Maybe I do --

"Lost in translation" as they say. Engineers didn't write the US owner's manual. Whoever did, forgot to specify the use of proper-spec oil. They assumed that nobody in their right mind would use mineral oil in these modern engines in this day and age. They assumed wrong.

 

[JHZR2]

why MB owners, owners of new MB cars are tring to save a buck is beyond me. Want to run conventional, go buy a Honda and change it every 3 mo/3k. Heck, if a conventional oil change schedule was used, that would be OK too...

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Kinda similar to what happened to VW/Audi about 10 years ago. People misinterpreted the owners manual and thought they could use a conventional oil.

Don't forget that currently many VW dealers use conventional oil in cars where it specifically says 502 or some other spec. I know of 2 personally that always use conventional and they will use synthetic if you request it. Most dealers know nothing and the oil list makes it hard for even knowledgeable oil people to know if they are using a listed oil or not. M1 TDT 5w40 is one example. GC which is now listed but previously wasn't (even though it said it was on the bottle) is another.

It's a joke to rely on authority from dealers to tell you what oil to use. It's better to educate yourself and use the best oil for your car and not just rely on the dealer or hard-to-interpret (and ever changing) oil lists. Also many of the oils on the list appear to be inadequate for engines such as the 2.0FSI where they can shear 25% in 1/2 the vw recommended interval. Or they may have inadequate anti-wear additives for the flat tappet fuel pump follower. This is in addition to any effect that an oil that has sheared and/or is more volatile has on increased valve deposits in DI engines.

 

[d00df00d]

Here's the link to the full article from which the OP copied and pasted:

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/presidents-desk/june-2003.php

It's an Amsoil propaganda article. It's also from 2003, referring to a case from 2001.


In case anyone is actually interested in this topic, here's a summary of the case from a non-Amsoil site: http://www.legalnewswatch.com/185/judge-approves-settlement-worth-32m-in-mercedes-benz-case

And here's a fuller summary, also from an Amsoil site but more factual than the first one: http://www.oil-tech.com/32million.htm


According to the above two links, $20 mil of the settlement was for repairs and the rest was for $35 oil change vouchers. No punitive damages or anything.


On the topic of who recommended the bad oil, this doesn't look to me like it's necessarily the dealers' fault. I also suspect that some people used oil that didn't even have the most basic API approvals, and that good conventional oils could have worked as Mercedes said, especially given the huge sump sizes involved. But whatever the case, it's obvious that Corporate hadn't done enough to prevent the use of substandard oils.


As for a perceived shortage of approved oils, it's important to note that Mercedes doesn't initiate the process. Companies decide whether to send their oils in and pay for the approval. However, almost all Mercedes owners should have no trouble finding an approved oil. 229.5 is currently the most widely used spec, and there is certainly no shortage of oils with that approval. Mobil 1 0w-40 meets it and is one of the most widely available oils out there. Between that, GC, and a few less common options from Valvoline, Pennzoil, and Lubro Moly, it should be easy to find an approved oil at any auto parts store and most dealerships, including non-Mercedes ones (e.g. Porsche, Chrysler).


And as for people being smarter than engineers... no comment.

 

[badnews]

Quote:
And as for people being smarter than engineers... no comment.


Yes the engineers always know best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkFoA-0yJH4

If all one is going to do is parrot
"read the owners manual and use the spec'd oil" -- might as well close down this board .

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Quote:
And as for people being smarter than engineers... no comment.


Yes the engineers always know best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkFoA-0yJH4

If all one is going to do is parrot
"read the owners manual and use the spec'd oil" -- might as well close down this board .


There are a variety of oils meeting the various specs. That requires discussion/comparison. Then throw in the variety of grades that can be used...then synthetic vs conventional.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: badnews
If all one is going to do is parrot
"read the owners manual and use the spec'd oil" -- might as well close down this board .

Once you're off warranty, you can do whatever you please, but if you're still under warranty, you'd better not give the dealer any reason to deny any warranty claims because you haven't used the required oil.

I don't dispute that there may be oils out there that do just as good of a job as the ones that are on MB list. As the other poster mentioned, it costs money to get your oil on the MB list and not all companies can afford it. But since finding an MB-approved oil is not a problem in my neck of the woods, I will stick with it.

As usual, this is just my opinion and I won't force it down anyone's throat. It's your car and your money and you will do as you please.

 

[badnews]

We are on the same page I guess pete

 

[badnews]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: badnews
Quote:
And as for people being smarter than engineers... no comment.


Yes the engineers always know best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkFoA-0yJH4

If all one is going to do is parrot
"read the owners manual and use the spec'd oil" -- might as well close down this board .


There are a variety of oils meeting the various specs. That requires discussion/comparison. Then throw in the variety of grades that can be used...then synthetic vs conventional.


Bob you have always been spot on with the advice as have a few others -- and I thank you and them for that .

I come to discuss oil not argue 600 ppm vs 7-800 ppm

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: badnews
I come to discuss oil not argue 600 ppm vs 7-800 ppm

The difference being?