Good News for EV Owners: Tesla adds charging at many hotels

[y_p_w]

There are a lot of things at a hotel that guests are allowed to use as part of the price of the room but most people never actually use them. How is this any different?

I would expect any Tesla contribution to these won't include charging other brands of cars for free.

That’s not exactly how it works. Their Destination Charging program mostly uses non-networked Wall Connectors and the press release says it’s the Universal Wall Connector with the built in J1772 adapter.

It might be possible to install access controls on Wall Connectors, but would probably defeat the purpose of the Universal version. It only works to allow Teslas by VIN/name. It can be set up via Wi-Fi but doesn’t necessarily have to connect to anything else other than for setup or for firmware updates.

https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/wall-connector/access-control

 

[alarmguy]

…These chargers can support Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector or the SAE J1772 connector used by most other automaker's EVs. Their 48-amp/11.5-kw output can add up to 44 miles of range per hour, according to Tesla.

I’m saying this sincerely, it seems to me they are bragging that possibly you could add 44 miles per hour?
Is that a misprint?
If it’s not a misprint, even worse, that’s under the most ideal of ideal circumstances, which very few vehicles will encounter.


I could fill up my gas tank in 4.4 minutes and go 400 miles.
So, if the story is correct, no one will have it be able to convince me then electric vehicle doesn’t severely lack inconvenience.
It’s like going backwards in time or something.
I’m saying this sincerely I feel like I’m missing something here because if that is correct, I had no idea it was that bad

 

[JeffKeryk]

I’m saying this sincerely, it seems to me they are bragging that possibly you could add 44 miles per hour?
Is that a misprint?
If it’s not a misprint, even worse, that’s under the most ideal of ideal circumstances, which very few vehicles will encounter.


I could fill up my gas tank in 4.4 minutes and go 400 miles.
So, if the story is correct, no one will have it be able to convince me then electric vehicle doesn’t severely lack inconvenience.
It’s like going backwards in time or something.
I’m saying this sincerely I feel like I’m missing something here because if that is correct, I had no idea it was that bad

The point is, vehicle efficiency rating depends on individual use case. You and I spend far more time (and $$) fueling our ICE vehicles than I do with our Model 3. I did an oil change on my Tundra 2 days ago; probably spent close to 2 hours as I was in no hurry. How much time does it take to service the Tesla? A lot less, because there is basically setting air pressure and windshield wiper fluid.

Also, I doubt you and I do not have a gas station at our homes, so I am not sure I agree with your fueling time. I have to hit up Costco or a lower price station because of the high prices here. It all adds up. I used to have EV range anxiety; still do a little. But that has been replaced with a hatred for gassing up; it's just an expensive chore.

 

[Shel_B]

I’m saying this sincerely, it seems to me they are bragging that possibly you could add 44 miles per hour?
Is that a misprint?
If it’s not a misprint, even worse, that’s under the most ideal of ideal circumstances, which very few vehicles will encounter.
I could fill up my gas tank in 4.4 minutes and go 400 miles.
So, if the story is correct, no one will have it be able to convince me then electric vehicle doesn’t severely lack inconvenience.
It’s like going backwards in time or something.
I’m saying this sincerely I feel like I’m missing something here because if that is correct, I had no idea it was that bad

I believe you are. These chargers are designed to charge at lower levels for overnight charging. You pull into your spot at check-in time, hook up the car, and drive off with a full battery when you leave, usually the next day. How much gas can you put into your ICE machine while you're sleeping?

Scenario: you and an EV driver pull into the hotel at about the same time, both vehicles are low on energy. The EV charges somewhat slowly overnight (which, as I understand it, is better for battery longevity than fast charging). In the morning the EV owner drives away and is heading to the next destination while you, the ICE owner, have to find a service station and fill up. Who's ahead?

Really though, it's not a race. You're each traveling how you prefer, enjoying the pleasures and benefits of your choices.

 

[Torrid]

I’m saying this sincerely, it seems to me they are bragging that possibly you could add 44 miles per hour?
Is that a misprint?
If it’s not a misprint, even worse, that’s under the most ideal of ideal circumstances, which very few vehicles will encounter.


I could fill up my gas tank in 4.4 minutes and go 400 miles.
So, if the story is correct, no one will have it be able to convince me then electric vehicle doesn’t severely lack inconvenience.
It’s like going backwards in time or something.
I’m saying this sincerely I feel like I’m missing something here because if that is correct, I had no idea it was that bad

The difference is the 48amp, which the Tesla charger can do. Most J1772 based chargers max at 30-32amp, which is around 29mph charging on a Model 3. The 44mph also sounds like the Model 3. This is why they're considering this a destination charger. You'd use it while sleeping just as home charging. I'm pretty sure the destination charger is the exact unit I'd have installed in my garage if I bought the Tesla charger instead of just getting the 30amp I have going in next week. It doesn't need to charge in 4.4 minutes. That's not the point in this method.

It's not a feat to sustain the 44mph. It's not taxing the battery to charge at 240V. It doesn't have a crazy sweet spot for battery temperature to maintain this other than just not being stone cold, whereas it is hugely beneficial to pre-condition for Supercharging. Not to mention if while sleeping it took 7 hours instead of 6 hours, it's likely not going to matter.

I understand why you see the concern in this, but this is the solution for someone who needs to stop and sleep. If I didn't need to sleep, I'd Supercharge at a normal station and continue on.

 

[UncleDave]

I’m saying this sincerely, it seems to me they are bragging that possibly you could add 44 miles per hour?
Is that a misprint?
If it’s not a misprint, even worse, that’s under the most ideal of ideal circumstances, which very few vehicles will encounter.


I could fill up my gas tank in 4.4 minutes and go 400 miles.
So, if the story is correct, no one will have it be able to convince me then electric vehicle doesn’t severely lack inconvenience.
It’s like going backwards in time or something.
I’m saying this sincerely I feel like I’m missing something here because if that is correct, I had no idea it was that bad

A destination charger is not a fast charger.

It's basically the same as you get at your house with a 50 amp connector and more than enough to fill the car at night while you do nothing.

It's much more convenient that having to travel to a separate destination before continuing your trip the next day.

A comparison would be someone else filling your car for you while you sleep - who cares how fast it happens as long as the car is full before you are ready to leave?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Choice Hotels, the chain that includes Radisson, Cambria, Comfort, Quality Inn, and more, has announced that it will add Tesla wallbox chargers at thousands of hotel locations—good for a full charge overnight for many EVs. The Cambria brand will offer EV chargers at every location, by the end of 2024.

This follows Hilton Hotels' announcement in September, confirming plans for up to 20,000 chargers—also Tesla Universal Wall Connectors. These chargers can support Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector or the SAE J1772 connector used by most other automaker's EVs. Their 48-amp/11.5-kw output can add up to 44 miles of range per hour, according to Tesla.

Ok, P=IV, so this is more than splicing into a 110 V 15 amp outlet. It’s going to require 220 V, 50 amp capable #6 wiring and some serious sub panels. PS, I have a Choice membership.

 

[y_p_w]

The difference is the 48amp, which the Tesla charger can do. Most J1772 based chargers max at 30-32amp, which is around 29mph charging on a Model 3. The 44mph also sounds like the Model 3. This is why they're considering this a destination charger. You'd use it while sleeping just as home charging. I'm pretty sure the destination charger is the exact unit I'd have installed in my garage if I bought the Tesla charger instead of just getting the 30amp I have going in next week. It doesn't need to charge in 4.4 minutes. That's not the point in this method.

It's not a feat to sustain the 44mph. It's not taxing the battery to charge at 240V. It doesn't have a crazy sweet spot for battery temperature to maintain this other than just not being stone cold, whereas it is hugely beneficial to pre-condition for Supercharging. Not to mention if while sleeping it took 7 hours instead of 6 hours, it's likely not going to matter.

I understand why you see the concern in this, but this is the solution for someone who needs to stop and sleep. If I didn't need to sleep, I'd Supercharge at a normal station and continue on.

They’ve got these at restaurants and other businesses too.that might be closer to adding whatever one can since it’s usually complimentary. I could see parking at a brewpub (which I’ve done charging at a Tesla Destination Charger) and waiting a few hours after consuming alcohol before driving. But how much depends on how far away it is. There are likely a lot of locals at restaurants.

Level 2 is also better for battery longevity. Still, there are no guarantees on availability, so it’s best to have a backup plan on a road trip.

 

[y_p_w]

Ok, P=IV, so this is more than splicing into a 110 V 15 amp outlet. It’s going to require 220 V, 50 amp capable #6 wiring and some serious sub panels. PS, I have a Choice membership.

Commercial might be different.

When my parents got their 50A circuit installed, they got a 2x50 dual-trip breaker, but I believe one isn’t being used. The double breakers were all that was available.

 

[Torrid]

They’ve got these at restaurants and other businesses too.that might be closer to adding whatever one can since it’s usually complimentary. I could see parking at a brewpub (which I’ve done charging at a Tesla Destination Charger) and waiting a few hours after consuming alcohol before driving. But how much depends on how far away it is. There are likely a lot of locals at restaurants.

Level 2 is also better for battery longevity. Still, there are no guarantees on availability, so it’s best to have a backup plan on a road trip.

I like Level 2s in this case. If I was at dinner and wanted to charge, I don't want to run out the door in 30 minutes to unplug and I'm not at danger of that with Level 2.

 

[Torrid]

Commercial might be different.

When my parents got their 50A circuit installed, they got a 2x50 dual-trip breaker, but I believe one isn’t being used. The double breakers were all that was available.

I'm pretty sure they're all double breakers with 240V from my understanding. Singles are only 120V, or at least that's how my breaker is set up. I think that's still only rated to 50amp. My 30amp dryer 240V breaker is double and is labeled 30 on both physical switches.

 

[JHZR2]

Slap a meter on them, problem solved.

That’s what I found was the case.

When I had my rental bolt scenario last fall, I went and plugged in at a charging point overnight. It was a 5kW spot, and so it didn’t really get me fully charged. But I got there, set up payment after connecting, and then left. The next day it had charged me not only for the electricity, but for the time spent at the charger. Given that it wasn’t any sort of fast charger, that was very much a ripoff since you really need to keep it there an extended period of time to make any practical difference in range.

 

[JHZR2]

Commercial might be different.

When my parents got their 50A circuit installed, they got a 2x50 dual-trip breaker, but I believe one isn’t being used. The double breakers were all that was available.

To get 240v from split phase home power, you need to have two poles. The only way to make it is to get two hots from the panel. You can’t use only one side of the whole thing, or else you need a neutral and get 120. There is a scheme called a multi wire branch circuit that uses the two hots and a neutral to make two independent 120v services that the one breaker will interrupt. In theory you could not connect the one conductor, but I can’t say that I see the sense in that.

Commercial could be 208v three phase, and you can get 120 from that…. But there’s no value in 120v for these higher power chargers.

 

[y_p_w]

I like Level 2s in this case. If I was at dinner and wanted to charge, I don't want to run out the door in 30 minutes to unplug and I'm not at danger of that with Level 2.

Non-networked is obviously free (or at least complimentary) with no chance of and idle fee.

I’m not sure how it worked when my parents ended up with a Tesla loaner. Charging was free but I’m not sure about idle fees.

 

[y_p_w]

I'm pretty sure they're all double breakers with 240V from my understanding. Singles are only 120V, or at least that's how my breaker is set up. I think that's still only rated to 50amp. My 30amp dryer 240V breaker is double and is labeled 30 on both physical switches.

As far as I know, most residential breakers are designed for 120/240V and it’s a matter of what’s wired into them. I’m looking at a breaker box and the 20 amp ones are single trip but two in the same package, and it says 120/240V. However, two of those fit in the same space as one of the 30 or 50 pairs. However, the 30 or 50 amp breakers are all joined pairs where both trip together.

 

[y_p_w]

To get 240v from split phase home power, you need to have two poles. The only way to make it is to get two hots from the panel. You can’t use only one side of the whole thing, or else you need a neutral and get 120. There is a scheme called a multi wire branch circuit that uses the two hots and a neutral to make two independent 120v services that the one breaker will interrupt. In theory you could not connect the one conductor, but I can’t say that I see the sense in that.

Commercial could be 208v three phase, and you can get 120 from that…. But there’s no value in 120v for these higher power chargers.

I’m not that well versed on breakers. So both poles are being used to generate 240V? I’m curious why the dual pole 20 amp breakers say 120/240V.

 

[JHZR2]

I’m not that well versed on breakers. So both poles are being used to generate 240V? I’m curious why the dual pole 20 amp breakers say 120/240V.

Wiki is fine for this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

In your panel, a single pole breaker gives you V1 or V2 when the white wire is neutral.

If you have a two pole breaker, each “half” is 120v to neutral, but together they have a 240v potential.

So they are 120/240. It depends upon if the load on either pole is using a neutral. If there’s a mwbc, the intention is really two 120v circuits with a shared neutral.

 

[y_p_w]

Wiki is fine for this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

View attachment 202729

In your panel, a single pole breaker gives you V1 or V2 when the white wire is neutral.

If you have a two pole breaker, each “half” is 120v to neutral, but together they have a 240v potential.

So they are 120/240. It depends upon if the load on either pole is using a neutral. If there’s a mwbc, the intention is really two 120v circuits with a shared neutral.

OK. I can at least read a circuit diagram. My diploma (at least one, since the other doesn’t even list my major) nominally says I’m an electrical engineer, but I don’t know the first thing about wiring a breaker. I live in a world of 1s and 0s, De Morgan’s Theorem, and register-transfer level design. Which means I barely understand how electricity works. RC delays are about it.

So I suppose with those 20 amp two pole breakers, to use them for 240V requires both be wired, but they trip independently.

 

[demarpaint]

That’s what I found was the case.

When I had my rental bolt scenario last fall, I went and plugged in at a charging point overnight. It was a 5kW spot, and so it didn’t really get me fully charged. But I got there, set up payment after connecting, and then left. The next day it had charged me not only for the electricity, but for the time spent at the charger. Given that it wasn’t any sort of fast charger, that was very much a ripoff since you really need to keep it there an extended period of time to make any practical difference in range.

Maybe I should have written "Slap a meter on them create another problem." I would have been PO'ed to say the least.

 

[alarmguy]

I believe you are. These chargers are designed to charge at lower levels for overnight charging. You pull into your spot at check-in time, hook up the car, and drive off with a full battery when you leave, usually the next day. How much gas can you put into your ICE machine while you're sleeping?

Scenario: you and an EV driver pull into the hotel at about the same time, both vehicles are low on energy. The EV charges somewhat slowly overnight (which, as I understand it, is better for battery longevity than fast charging). In the morning the EV owner drives away and is heading to the next destination while you, the ICE owner, have to find a service station and fill up. Who's ahead?

Really though, it's not a race. You're each traveling how you prefer, enjoying the pleasures and benefits of your choices.

Ok, I was reading the story like it was supposed to be fast charging. You explained its not. that is all good.
I feel bad for the people who pull into a hotel hoping to get a spot at the chargers and they are not all full. It's still an inconvenience and will never be able to universally power American highways more than 50% and that would be a generous statement.

Since you mentioned gas stations, they are never full and a five minute stop gets you 400 miles. In all fairness if we turned that around the other way, it would sound ridiculous for example, if it took overnight to fill a gas tank and a new technology with battery powered cars were able to charge up in 5 minutes. Suggesting gasoline is still better would sound silly.

BTW- Im not against EVs, except for supporting the movement with tax dollars for a special use vehicle that the majority of people in the USA cannot use or afford. I even seriously considered one for a second car and still may one day though, I have been lately thinking a Chevy Trax for the second. Think I still may have years left on our Mazda that jsut sits in our driveway. Actually hasn't moved in 2 weeks now.